Need advice with BP/W selection

[lof]

I've seen lots of references to STA (Single Tank Adapters). It appears the DSS Backplate and the DSS Wing don't require an STA. Is this a significant benefit or is it actually better to use a setup that requires an STA? I couldn't really tell if the Golem or DiveRite setups require an STA for single tank diving?

The Golem35 wing does not require STA. There are built-in STA rods in the wing (you can also get it without the STA rods). For the light weight really streamlined setup you could use it with a Low Profile SS backplate
http://www.golemgear.com/pc-73-2-low-profile-mark-meadows-backplate.aspx
for a rock solid clean kit.

 

[ProfessorAronnax]

But that's only going to make about 3.5 pounds difference. Are you assuming I also use the lighter two-piece STA which is 3+ pounds lighter than the 1 piece STA, or should I just get the one piece STA to use with both the SS and the ALU BPs?

What about the LCD Wings on the DSS site. Would they work well with the Hammerhead BPs? It states the singles wings don't need an STA. What that be a better choice to go with the Hammerhead BP eliminate having to use an STA if I'm just using the wing for singles and it is only a little more expensive than the Oxycheck wing?

I saw a statement that crotch straps don't work with the Hammerhead BPs. Is this true and if so is it much of a concern? How important is the crotch strap. I though a read a few people that don't like diving with them but they improve the fit.

Much of what your asking is just a matter of preference. All I'm saying is with airline weight restrictions it's a good idea to think about shedding pounds where possibe.
I'm not certain about the other brands but as far as ZEAGLE BP/Ws are concerned, they are interchangeble with leading brands and don't require a STA.

 

[SangP]

jc2,

Please check this thread first:
http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=130700

Who says crotch straps don't work with Hammerhead bps? I got a Hammerhead ALU plate and it fits a 2' strap fine. Crotch straps when adjusted well really compliment a bp/w... it is much more stable.
Check out the plate design, does it look like it won't accept a 2" crotch strap?
http://www.hammerheadscuba.com/hh2.htm

You might not need an STA with a Hammerhead plate if you just bolted a wing onto the plate through the mounting holes in the first place and then used regular cam straps through the slots of wings. I won't recommend it but can work if the bolts are flushed with the wing mounting holes otherwise, the tank would be balanced on the heads of the bolts rather than the whole plate... very unstable.

Trust me when I say the guys like Tobin and Patrick Duffy have thought all these things through before they even put pen to paper on their designs. There is a reason why STAs make tanks more stable and why STA less rigs have alternate ways of making the tank stable, like the DSS (Cam Strap Tension Pads or wedge blocks) and Halcyon Pioneer (integrated STA or rods).

If you are going to skimp on gear, I would suggest fins (which you can get a good pair of jet fins from Ebay cheap). Saving $50 bucks and getting something you'll regret later is much much more costly.

I've got way too much gear but the one thing I really don't regret getting is a good bp/w rig in the first place. I have paid a bit more than what I needed to with my H rig but it's something I can easily live with.

Any of the above setups are great and it's money well spent.

SangP

 

[jc2]

If I do just a SS Plate and buy both the Hammerhead 1-piece (5 lbs 3 ounces) STA to use in cold water and pack the lightweight 2-piece (2lb 1 oz) STA for warm water since not only do I save some weight, but it is also easier to pack than the 1-piece STAs. This is essentially close to the same weight reduction if I used an ALU BP for warm water with the same SS 1-piece STA which I assume is what a lot of people do (or do people also pack a lightweight ALU STA instead of a SS one when they go warm water?)

The Wings with built-in STA rods like the Golem and DSS sound intriguing but if I went with those, then I would just get a SS BP and an ALU BP for warm water. My cocern though is with the lower profile, if I'm diving a regulator with a DIN to Yoke Adapter, wouldn't I have more of a chance a bonking the back of my head on the Yoke-Dine Adapter setup?

Also on the wing size. If I'm diving in a dry suit in cold water, for single tank dives (the biggest tank I'd probably every use is a LP 104), would a 20# wing be a better choice than a 30# since it is more compact for travel and will be enough lift coupled with the dry suit in cold water? Or would 30# be a better choice in case you need to take a buddy to the surface due to BC malfunction or something?

So what are people's opinions on the best setup?

1) Get an SS BP and a SS 1-piece STA for cold, pack the lightweight 2-piece more easily packable STA for warm.

OR

2) Get a Wing with STA built-in and buy a SS BP for cold water and an ALU BP for warm water?

Get a #20 wing for Single tank dives in both cold and warm up to a LP 104 size tank or go with a #30 wing?

I think I'm just about to take the plunge. I just need to decide between using a regular Hog Harness (cheap to replace, ifinitely configurable), the DiveRite Deluxe with a Quick Release for more comfort and easier on/off, or the DiveRite TransPlate. Is the DiveRite Deluce with Quick Release any more easily adjustable than a simply Hog Harness?

Keep in mind, I typically don't dive more than 20 times a year and will be doing 80% rec diving with a few deep dives or maybe a drift dive or wreck dive here and there. So whatever harness I get should last quite a while. The opinions here seem to be overwhelmingly towards the simply Hog harness but for primarily rec diving and someone new to the whole BP/W setup, I can't help but be attracted to the Transplate as more of a "transitional" harness. (Someone mentioned something about the velcro being a pain on that setup though?) My tech diving buddy though will probably say why did you waste your money on that thing when I just told you to go to the store and buy some webbing!

 

[cool_hardware52]

There is a reason why STAs make tanks more stable and why STA less rigs have alternate ways of making the tank stable, like the DSS (Cam Strap Tension Pads or wedge blocks) and Halcyon Pioneer (integrated STA or rods).SangP

The DSS solution to preventing tank rock without a STA is not dependant on either the cam pads or the wedge blocks. These two items are intended to maintain camstrap tension, and prevent overloading the buckle, they do their job well, but they don't stop tank. The DSS wings have a elastomeric cradle in the center channel that prevents wobble. In addition the absense of metal grommets, and bolts in a DSS wing means that there are no "high points" to cause tank rock. These features are unique to DSS. How do I know this? Because we actually mold the required pieces ourselves.

Again, most people who prefer STA's do so based on poor results with other, older rod type attempts to build some sort of tank support into a wing. It's noteable that just recently the largest maker of "Rod type" sta-less wings abandoned this approach.

Is it possible to build up a BP&W with parts from many different sources? Of course, but you are likely to end up having paid more, and have potential mismatch problems. At best it may work, but less well that a system approach, at worst you may have to purchase extras that would be otherwise unneccessary.

Then there is the issue of support and trouble shooting. When somebody calls me up for help setting up a DSS rig, I have first hand knowledge of all the parts and how they work together.

When somebody has problems with a "frankenstein" I may have never even seen that combo before. Makes it hard to help them.

This in general is more of an issue for single tank rigs. For doubles there are just fewer permutations possible that can lead to trouble, and for the most part doubles users are already familiar with a BP&W.


Regards,



Tobin

 

[lof]

The Wings with built-in STA rods like the Golem and DSS sound intriguing but if I went with those, then I would just get a SS BP and an ALU BP for warm water. My cocern though is with the lower profile, if I'm diving a regulator with a DIN to Yoke Adapter, wouldn't I have more of a chance a bonking the back of my head on the Yoke-Dine Adapter setup?

You will not bang your head into the reg if your kit is set up properly. The low profile is what you want, the closer the tank is to your back the more streamlined you are.

I think I'm just about to take the plunge. I just need to decide between using a regular Hog Harness (cheap to replace, ifinitely configurable), the DiveRite Deluxe with a Quick Release for more comfort and easier on/off, or the DiveRite TransPlate. Is the DiveRite Deluce with Quick Release any more easily adjustable than a simply Hog Harness?

The Dive Rite Deluxe harness does NOT have a quick release, it just has shoulder pivot rings for more comfortable fit. The DR Trasplate harness has Quick releases as does the DSS Pro-Fit Harness.

 

[cummings66]

I don't know what your setup is, but I would most certainly bang my head into mine if I used the Din to Yoke adapter, it's huge.

Now with just Din it's very close and I can see where it's possible depending on brand of reg. There are some lower profile ones that seem to work well, not to mention your tank valve can affect this as well. Does it angle upward or just straight out? I've seen them both ways and the wrong choice will let you hit your head.

For what it's worth, my 300 bar Din setup is fine and my noggin safe using the DSS BP/W. It would not work well if I used my adapter to dive a yoke valve, the din to yoke adapter adds another inch or two to the length and I'd probably hit my head on it.

 

[radinator]

I'm a rec diver that may do some "light" tech diving ocassionally (twins, deep dives, etc.) and my Instructor friend recommended I get a Stainless Steel Backplate and then buy the strap material to make my own harness with. He said it works great and can accomodate all kinds of setups and is economical. I could see using it diving in cold water with my dry suite and all my clothing underneath, but wouldn't this kind of setup be uncomfortable in warm water diving when you are wearing a very thin shorty or even sometimes nothing at all on top if it is really warm? I need a setup that work well for both applications.

I've worn my aluminum plate with nothing but shorts while diving the Florida Keys. While on land the webbing was a bit uncomfortable on my sholders due to the weight of the tank, in the water I didn't really notice it.

Ray

 

[SangP]

Guys,

We really need a sticky thread on just the pro and cons of bp/w and advice for warm and cold water dives!!!!

cummings66, are u guessing bout the additional length of the adaptor? If you are, stop you are just confusing jc2. The added lenght for any adaptor is at most an inch and that's already a lot.

A bp/w is the simplest setup of all and unless you overcomplicate the rig I doubt you'll get a frankenstein. How confusing can a 4 piece rig be?
1. Wing
2. Plate
3. STA
4. Harness

jc2 since, you are already at the point of purchasing your gear I would advice that you speak to Tobin, Kelly Jewett at Samishdivers or Jakub at www.golemgear.com and get the help from the professionals.
or
Ebay has 2 halcyon bp/harness that ends in a couple of hours, item 7221726343 and 7221726375, Oms plate and harness (7222552408) Halcyon STA and cam bands (7222209308), you could get a wing from either kelly or Jakub.

Me, I like to mix and match since I know what I want. Tobin's stuff is nice but I like donuts, SS cam bands, Alu plates and STAs.

Good luck

SangP

Btw, a nice guy posted some pictures of his rig and how he used weight pockets on the tank straps for weighting, I fogot the thread or the author but I save the pictures and it's how I know a Alu plate can weigh the same if not more than a ss plate and still be balanced. Pm me if you want the picts.

 

[cummings66]

Guys,
cummings66, are u guessing bout the additional length of the adaptor? If you are, stop you are just confusing jc2. The added lenght for any adaptor is at most an inch and that's already a lot.

NO, I am not guessing about it. I own the adaptor and know from personal experience that it will be close enough to hit your head on it if you have a setup like mine.

I have the DSS LCD30 setup and a Sherwood Genesis Regulator that's setup for 300 BAR din. That setup comes with an adaptor that screws to the din threads on the reg and extends it more than the inch you believe. The tank is a Genesis Steel HP 120 with their valve, i.e Norris makes the tank for them. The valve is angled so that the Din connector goes slightly upwards.

Now, that said the Din hookup is very close to my head and I can rub the back of my head on it if I arch the neck backwards. I can't hit it hard enough to hurt myself. Now if I mount my AL80 and put the adaptor on the Din reg then yes I CAN hit it easily and it would hurt. As of today I just sold my last AL80 and it's not an issue for me at this point unless I have to rent a tank that's yoke based. I deliver the tank tomorrow and maybe I can take a pic of what I mean before it has to go if you doubt what I'm saying.

I think you're confusing the adaptor. The one I speak of goes on the reg, not the tank. It converts Din connector on the reg so that you can use that reg on a 3000 psi yoke valve. It looks like a yoke connector that screws on the Din threads turning it into an oversized Yoke reg. It's much more than an inch further out.

Sorry to confuse you SangP, that's how it is from personal experience and if anybody says you won't ever be able to hit your head using adaptors they're flat out wrong because different first stages have different attachment points and are sized differently in length. I'm not trying to confuse anybody, I am telling you the facts. Just to make sure, when I say reg I mean the first stage, not the second.