need advice on regulator for beginner, Monterey, CA area

[Tony387]

Personally, I would be more concerned with its service history and the repeated abuse that rentals are subjected to, than I would be about someone else having it in their mouth. Just me...

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[rivers]

For regs, my suggestion would be Apeks or aqualung. Not sure of the price of Apeks stateside, but they are cheap as chips on this side of the pond. Their atx and xtx series have the same internals, so go for the cheapest option with a ds-4 first stage. If you go for an aqualung, the Titan is a good reg. make sure it's cold water rated. You will need an octo and an spg.

 

[herman]

Some things to keep in mind when reading all the reg hype.
Pretty much any first stage made today will supply all the gas 2 divers can use so the fact that flow through pistons (most SP and Atomic) CAN flow more gas is a mute point in the piston vs diaphragm debate. Another key point that most divers do not understand and shops certainly will not tell you is 99% of the performance of any reg set is determined by the second stage. What that means is you go for the better second stage and ignore the hype about the first. Top of the line models tend to have a lot of flashy bits and lots of "features" that run up the cost but very rarely are they worth much. If you dig into the internal working of regs what you will find is the first stages of compairable designs are almost identical, fact is Aqualung uses the exact same parts inside of all of it's diaphragm regs, the only difference is the look of the body. In other words, a bottom end AL Titan and a top of the line Legend are exactly alike inside....which is what matters so from a performance/quality standpoint. Internally, they are the same reg....why pay more for the reg. Second stages are even worse. If you look at the design what you will find the manuf will have 2 or 3 base models which they add bit and pieces to in order the up the sale price, many times they are the same second stage with a little different front cover. A top end Titan second is the same as a bottom end Legend with different cover plates. Why pay more for the name stamped on the cover?

DIN vs yoke is another debate filled with misinformation. Both work fine for rec diving. Contrary to what most think, both have their advantages and disadvantages and in the end are at best equal choices for most of us here in the USA. If you have your own tanks and never travel to the Caribbean either is fine. On the other hand if you travel a lot and have no interest in tech diving, the yoke wins out due to the ease which you can find rental tanks. Converters are an option but why bother if there is no good reason to buy DIN in the first place for your application. All current regs can be easily converted between the 2 styles so in the event you do change your mind later, it's not a big deal to convert the reg you have.

 

[tooez]

Some things to keep in mind when reading all the reg hype.
Pretty much any first stage made today will supply all the gas 2 divers can use so the fact that flow through pistons (most SP and Atomic) CAN flow more gas is a mute point in the piston vs diaphragm debate. Another key point that most divers do not understand and shops certainly will not tell you is 99% of the performance of any reg set is determined by the second stage. What that means is you go for the better second stage and ignore the hype about the first. Top of the line models tend to have a lot of flashy bits and lots of "features" that run up the cost but very rarely are they worth much. If you dig into the internal working of regs what you will find is the first stages of compairable designs are almost identical, fact is Aqualung uses the exact same parts inside of all of it's diaphragm regs, the only difference is the look of the body. In other words, a bottom end AL Titan and a top of the line Legend are exactly alike inside....which is what matters so from a performance/quality standpoint. Internally, they are the same reg....why pay more for the reg. Second stages are even worse. If you look at the design what you will find the manuf will have 2 or 3 base models which they add bit and pieces to in order the up the sale price, many times they are the same second stage with a little different front cover. A top end Titan second is the same as a bottom end Legend with different cover plates. Why pay more for the name stamped on the cover?

Thanks for the input. You seem to know a lot about scuba gears. Can you recommend me any model that I should be looking? I don't want to spend way too much over something I don't need. I don't think I will be diving more than 10 times a year.

 

[herman]

Any of the mid to upper mid range models of any major brand are fine. The lesser know brands are fine as well, the only issue with them is finding a service shop. Same goes for well know brands that don't have a following in your area. Cressi comes to mind, perfectly good regs but in my area they are fairly uncommon so finding a service shop is more difficult than for other brands. You will spend a lot more money for the top of the line models but will get little in return other than bragging rights. Like has been said before, look for a brand that your local dive shop (and those close by in case they close) sell and service so service and parts will not be an issue. I would suggest you avoid store brands. In general nothing wrong with them but most have to be sent back the same place you purchased it for service which can be problematic. I would also suggest you avoid the....for lack of a better word "hyped" brands. I have one particular brand in mind but in any case within the major brands there is very little real difference in performance and quality. Don't fall for the "brand X is much better than brand Y" BS, they aren't and esp if you are paying a premimum for one brand over another.
Unless you are diving in cold water, piston vs diaphragm design is not important and you don't need an enviromental seal in either one. At moderately cold conditions, a diaphragm is the better choice since it is by basic design more cold tolerant than a piston reg, in very cold water they are the best hands down due to the way they are sealed....followers of piston regs will disagree but that is a matter for debate elsewhere.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Piston regs can be made to tolerate cold by jam packing the internal chamber (where the sea water enters) full of silicone to keep the salt water away from the piston O-ring. But, that grease does slowly rinse away and it can also collect bits of grain and sand and junk, so that's why they need to be at least serviced every few years (or more if you dive in really silty conditions) even though they may not need a full rebuild with new parts.
Piston regs really weren't designed for our waters (Monterey and North Coast) where we dive. They have been doctored up to work yes, but not ideal. For clear warm waters they are great.

With diaphragm regs, instead of a piston in a cylinder sliding back and forth, there is a flexible disc (diaphragm) that is sealed around the outside from all the external water. This flexible disc is what allows what would be the piston in the other reg to do it's work regulating the internal pressure of the air. When you make a hard demand for air on the reg the little high pressure seat (where full tank pressure comes in) will open up to maintain that same IP the best it can. The reason pistons have more flow is because there isn't a limit really to how far they can slide to open up the HP seat to allow for demand, whereas the diaphragm does have a max amount of flex to allow the seat to open up. BUT, unless you have 30 divers breathing off one 1st stage a diaphragm will still be plenty of air flow for a small crowd.
I personally think the diaphragm is a superior design for scuba regulators just because of the inherent sealing, no O-rings exposed to outside water, and no grease that can pick up abrasive debris, and if taken care of (not allowing salt water to enter 1st stage inlet) diaphragms can go longer between services than pistons.

Like Herman said, look into the Aqualung Titan. As long as the 1st stage is supplying 140 or so PSI steady who cares? That's all it's supposed to do. The second stage is where all your performance and percieved "ease of breathing" will come from.

If I were you I would get your reg first.
Get a small round pressure gauge and use tables to start.
You don't need a computer to start diving.

Second I would get a BC.

Get the computer last.

 

[decompression]

Agreed, the titans are an excellent all around reg. I know computers are cheap these days but unnecessary. Using min deco Is far cheaper and never needs batteries.


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[Ricky B]

What kind of computer do you recommend?

That's the topic for a separate thread. First, you have to figure out your budget for a computer. For some, price is no object. For other, price is indeed the object.

For an entry-level computer, you can start by looking at the thread I list below, which will mention the Puck as well. The Puck and the Zoop are the two entry-level dive computers that I have seen recommended most often here on ScubaBoard.

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/co...s-analyzers/476179-my-review-suunto-zoop.html

---------- Post added April 14th, 2014 at 10:50 AM ----------

If I were you I would get your reg first.
Get a small round pressure gauge and use tables to start.
You don't need a computer to start diving.

...

Get the computer last.

Did you mean depth gauge?

Your approach is fine for minimalist diving, but consider this. Tables are prone to user error. A single dive, not so much, but repetitive diving requires careful attention and ingrained knowledge of how to use the tables. Tables also require the diver to know in advance the depth to which he will descend. Based on my experience on dive boats in warm water, many new divers without computers follow the DM but then no attention to depth control. They swim down 10 or 15 feet to look at something and then swim along at that lower depth for some time.

For me, the dive computer was the most portable piece of equipment I could buy after my mask and all I needed beyond the mask when on vacation.

As is obvious, others disagree on which equipment to buy first. I won't be responding further on that topic in this thread because I don't want to hi-jack the thread.

 

[runsongas]

are you planning to dive local or no? If you stick to warm water, any reg in good shape should work for you.

If you plan on diving cold and getting into tech, the apeks xtx50 can be the only reg you ever buy. otherwise, you can get by with something more value oriented like an envoy. the AL titan isn't bad either although you arguably should just get a rebuilt conshelf at that point.

 

[crab4life]

oceanic has a lot of older generation computers that can be had for pretty cheap at your LDS.I have one and its great.