Near reg failure - all ok

[rx7diver]

... R said it was 1.7cf but I remember it as being a yellow/green color with the words Spare Air on it.

You won't find much love on SB for that particular pony bottle--for good reason, I think. There are many threads here that will help you identify a better choice--if this incident leads you to reconsider. Easier, much more adequate, and less hassle if you simply take a simple equalizing whip (about the size of an extra LP hose).

But, I agree. If you and R stay close together, and you're both well rehearsed with your buddy procedures, then this is the easier solution, absolutely.

rx7diver

 

[davehicks]

For context: I actually own all of the following sizes: 1.7, 3, 6, and 19cu. I consider 1.7 and 3cu to be more far dangerous, than no pony bottle at all. They give a false sense of security, while providing almost zero security or redundancy.

While diving, try using one of those pony bottles. You'll be surprised; you might get a few breaths before suddenly it's impossible to breathe and near empty in a shockingly short amount of time.

The bare minimum size I can possibly recommend is 6cu. At 6cu, you're still looking at needing to surface IMMEDIATELY. When I tested my 6cu in a pool, each breath at about 7.5ft deep, used about 100psi. At 30ft, you're looking at maybe 15 breaths? The 6cu could save your life, but you need to not delay.

My actual ideal size is 19cu for recreational diving. Aside from extreme emergencies, entanglement, or panic, you should be able to safely surface from any no-deco dive, including taking a safety stop. If you travel a lot, perhaps go 13cu, but be prepared for am abbreviated safety stop.

30 or 40cu is more air, but they're big enough I've noticed a lot of people who have this size just leave it at home. A 13 or 19cu on your person, is 10000x more useful than the 40cu you left at home. The 40s are good for technical diving though, so if you plan to do that you could future proof with a 40cu.

I've traveled with 19cf bottles for my rebreathers many times. It's really not a problem at all. Just remove the cylinder valve and put a piece of tape over the hole. Wrap up the valve carefully so you break off the dip tube. All you need a big wrench (at home) to loosen the valve. I usually wack the end of the wrench with a hammer and it loosens right up.

I've also rented 30cf or 40cf bail outs at my destinations. Many operators have these available on request.

 

[Bob DBF]

I consider 1.7 and 3cu to be more far dangerous, than no pony bottle at all.

That's your choice, the fact is, if you need a breath there is one available, which is not more dangerous than no pony bottle which would be no breath.

They give a false sense of security, while providing almost zero security or redundancy.

They are only give a false sense of security if one believes that it can somehow deliver more air than it can hold. The security it provides is 1.7 to 3 cuft of air, if one needs more than that, then they should carry more than that. However if that is enough... Isn't a Spare Air considered redundancy for a solo class?


My experience with the Spare Air was OK, the issue I had was the conditions I dive in made it a maintainance pita. Getting banged around and sandy rough entrances and exits at the ocean, I was continually pulling it apart and cleaning. Off a boat it avoided those issues but that is a small part of my diving.

I picked it up to see how it worked and pick up a breath on a CSEA, if I needed it. As it was, I never did during my practice ascents, and went back to the surface as my redundancy as it was for the prior 30 odd years.

As I got older, I picked up a 19 to use on my deep dives and with my double hose when buddy diving. I am not opposed to ponies, but look it at as a personal choice to use it and determine the size. Other than solo diving, the pony should not be necessary.

 

[NeilA.]

I am glad you are okay Kimela. I suppose it is good that it seems no one else contributing to this thread has had this problem. Thanks for making us aware of your experience.

 

[SlugLife]

Hee hee! He'll be telling me to get lost!!!

R said it was 1.7cf but I remember it as being a yellow/green color with the words Spare Air on it. How's that for helpful?

Yes, that is a 1.7cu. I own both a 1.7 and 3cu spare air. (No idea if they have larger sizes). They're were initially designed for bailing out of helicopter that crash-land in water, and then were "rebranded" as scuba-redundancy devices. I've also found Spare Air brand is very difficult to breathe from, even when full.

That's your choice, the fact is, if you need a breath there is one available, which is not more dangerous than no pony bottle which would be no breath. They are only give a false sense of security if one believes that it can somehow deliver more air than it can hold. The security it provides is 1.7 to 3 cuft of air, if one needs more than that, then they should carry more than that. However if that is enough...

We're both right depending on context. Why? "I consider 1.7 and 3cu to be more far dangerous, than no pony bottle at all." Technically, 2, 3, or 10 spare breaths is better than 0, if everything else is equal.

However, who do you think is buying 1.7cu or 3cu bottles?

1. An informed diver, who is aware that a 1.7cu or 3cu bottle will run out in a few breaths?
2. An informed diver, who thinks the SpareAir will provide meaningful redundancy?

Personally, I see no reason why an informed diver would ever waste money on one, given a pony-tank setup is a similar price. Even the 1.7cu or 3cu bottle is almost as annoying to deal with as my 19cu. The spare-air is a "yellow flag" or "red flag" which strongly suggests an uninformed diver, who thinks it provides more redundancy than it actually does. So, we might have someone solo-diving, not sticking close enough to their buddy, or going deeper than they can manage an emergency-ascent.

I'm speaking from experience, having been an ignorant diver who rushed out to buy a Spare Air. Thankfully, I did a brief 15ft test-dives with the 1.7cu and then 3cu. I was shocked, both might as well have been paper-weights, because it was like "this is kinda neat" followed by "why is this thing already empty?"

Isn't a Spare Air considered redundancy for a solo class?

Maybe an instructor could chime in? Personally, I'd run the other way if a solo-course thought a 1.7cu bottle was fine.

 

[Kimela]

Update: I called Divers Supply (that's where we send our regs for servicing) and they said they cleaned out the hoses, 1st and 2nd stage and replaced the filter. They said the filter they replaced did still have some oxidation in it. I'm really glad I sent it in. The total was $135.

Btw, I posted about this on my own Diving FB page (it's like a sub-page of my FB page) and there were a few people who had similar issues - one gal said her reg kept free-flowing at depth and they were able to connect it to oxidation in the tank - and she said she was one of three on that trip to Galapagos. She said a warning sign was their pressure gauge needle would drop on the inhale and then go back to what the pressure reading of the tank was. Same thing happened to another gal in Cozumel. I guess mine was the more theatrical experience!

 

[Rob9876]

Maybe an instructor could chime in? Personally, I'd run the other way if a solo-course thought a 1.7cu bottle was fine.

I'm not an instructor, but I recall that the SDI Solo course does mention Spare Air as one type of redundant air source. Which it definitely is, within (very limited) limits.

Right now my only redundant air source is my 19cf pony, which to me is a nice size for many situations. However, I still think about possibly getting a 3cf or 6cf Spare Air (or possibly a 6cf pony) for certain travel situations, knowing their limitations.

There's another thread on SB right now where solo divers are talking about situations where they forego bringing redundant air. Responses vary widely, but many don't bother in more shallow dives, say 30 feet or so (some even say around 60 feet). In those type situations, rather than just having to do a CESA, it would be nice to have a Spare Air for a few breaths. Real world example: diving solo at Blue Heron Bridge, where most of the dive is 20 feet or less -- still nice to have extra air, but a pain to have to fly with a pony tank and extra reg set.

The same can be said for deeper dives where you have a less attentive insta-buddy (or your buddy is distracted taking pictures, etc.). Just having a few extra breaths would be nice while you ring a clanger or get closer to your buddy so they realize you need help. One can say "that's using equipment to solve a more fundamental problem" and that's true, but stuff happens.

It would be nice if airline luggage limits didn't make it so difficult/pricey to bring a nice size pony. But they do, so I think there are some situations where a 3 or 6 cf Spare Air or Pony could make sense.

 

[Boarderguy]

It would be nice if airline luggage limits didn't make it so difficult/pricey to bring a nice size pony. But they do, so I think there are some situations where a 3 or 6 cf Spare Air or Pony could make sense.

6CF spare air is about 4 lbs. 13 CF pony is about 7 lbs with the valve. A 2nd reg in your carry on and the bottle w/ valve remove in your checked bag isn't that much difference for a good bit more air. Plus the 13 doesn't require a special fill adapter. Better off traveling with a 13 (6lbs no valve) or 19 (8 lbs no valve) that can be filled at any compressor.

 

[Rob9876]

6CF spare air is about 4 lbs. 13 CF pony is about 7 lbs with the valve. A 2nd reg in your carry on and the bottle w/ valve remove in your checked bag isn't that much difference for a good bit more air. Plus the 13 doesn't require a special fill adapter. Better off traveling with a 13 (6lbs no valve) or 19 (8 lbs no valve) that can be filled at any compressor.

My 19cf with valve and pony reg setup is right around 10. Guess if I had a 13cf it would be around 8. It's all relative -- when you have airline bag limits of 40 or 50 lbs, a 4 or 6 lb. difference is lot. Especially since all of my other gear in a checked bag is usually around 46 lbs damp when flying back (that's already putting some items in my carry-on). YMMV, but for me the result is usually to not fly with a pony.

 

[OMyMyOHellYes]

Better off traveling with a 13 (6lbs no valve) or 19 (8 lbs no valve) that can be filled at any compressor.

Or a 17 ..... They fit my Pelican Air prefectly.