Near Miss with Cruise Ship: Dive Paradise - Cozumel

[DandyDon]

If I recall correctly, you've also had a number of "exciting" dives there.

flots.

Yep, some learning experiences - but I was not including those in my reply. Just the regular diving,or was your intent was to win by discrediting me?

 

[flots am]

Yep, some learning experiences - but I was not including those in my reply. Just the regular diving,or was your intent was to win by discrediting me?

I'm not trying to "win" anything. Only to note that Cozumel, while promoted as an easy, safe diving destination, is actually based on an inherently dangerous model.

I mentioned you because you've had more close brushes with death in Cozumel than anybody else I've heard of. However anybody who's interested and has a lot of free time can search the A&I forum for "cozumel." There are tons of posts and they don't all end as well as yours.

 

[Mike]

If the DM did not explain to a divers understanding that at the end of the Paradise dive site there is a NO GO zone that is not just a safety consideration but a federal exclusion area involving both Mexican and US governents. this is not a near miss, this is just a failure to emphasize the significance of what was at the end of the dive and to prepare the divers in advance to take it seriously.
No divers were harmed in the making of this film.
they even got to pretend to be commandos at the end, Bonus.

LOL,

I tend to see this the same as you do. I believe the OP had some other issues with the dive op unrelated to any of this and when this happened it was the catalyst to make a bad report about them. The original post is a bit weird in how there is so much emphasis about missing a safety stop, the low air etc... and then it's revealed they are all experienced divers, instructors and divemasters themselves, whom should know that the safety stop wasn't a big deal nor the low air, so what was with the major emphasis on it?... makes you go hmm.... and I read between the lines, that experienced divers diving with Dive Paradise means that prices have a big influence on why they dive with them, since they aren't known for catering to experienced divers, or to put it another way, experienced divers don't really seek out that type of dive operator. and the OP had some issues with them, probably about money or extras or something they feel they got less than expected.

Anyways, yes some of the DM in Cozumel are great to dive with and they do know where the critters are at and have good eyes. However, divers can develop the same ability that these divemasters have to find the critters if they go through the time and experience to develop them, but they never will if all they do is follow a dive master around. I still remember my first dives in Bonaire how after diving the same place a number of times I started seeing more and more sea life, it had been there before, but I just didn't have the eyes to see it yet. It's an epifany in diving that some may or may not ever get to.

 

[DandyDon]

I'm not trying to "win" anything. Only to note that Cozumel, while promoted as an easy, safe diving destination, is actually based on an inherently dangerous model.

Oh, that was your intent? Well, I never suggest Coz as a "easy, safe diving destination," indeed there are several aspects that make it otherwise - and I'm often the quickest to suggest first timers to hire a private DM for at least one trip, and other cautions. Model...?

I mentioned you because you've had more close brushes with death in Cozumel than anybody else I've heard of. However anybody who's interested and has a lot of free time can search the A&I forum for "cozumel." There are tons of posts and they don't all end as well as yours.

I have? I screwed up first day a few trips/years back, went LOA :blush:, but think I did great with my CESA. There have been some other adventures, sure - but I think "close brushes with death" is a little whacked. I suspect you just like to win at internet, but your can't, can't can't claims of 5 hours 23 minutes earlier are flat wrong, but we all get to have opinions here.

Anytime a diver shares his experiences in Near Miss forum, he runs a risk of having members here tell him how s/he screwed up.

 

[crosshairs]

You can't surface because the boat isn't looking for you, they're looking for the DM's lift bag. Surfacing without the DM or a lift bag is begging to get hit with a boat or prop, which means that whatever happens, you're stuck following the DM. He's going to get picked up. You? Maybe not. Shooting your own lift bag is better, but there's no reason to think that your boat will know you belong to them and stop to pick you up.

I have a little over 100 dives in Cozumel, and my experience is that if you surface, someone will see you and call your boat...provided you know who your diving with..and it goes without saying that every diver should have their own bag to shoot..... I have however seen divers without one , so I'm not so sure how they would fair if they had to surface alone

 

[vincent54]

Hanging on the side of a moving boat isn't that dangerous. In an emergency extract it is the quickest away out. The person will be pushed away from the boat due to hydrodynamics if they let go. No one will be sucked into the props. Looks dangerous, but it isn't. Sounds like a fun dive considering everyone made it out in one piece. Cheers

 

[Rick Murchison]

I would cut the operator a break, the laws around the cruise ship are very serious, I have had a similar issue at that point, they risk more than a small fine if they are inside that chain area that the bouy is marking. I am sure that a safety stop was low on the list of priorities, it is optional after all, being inside the zone is not.

Every now and then it's useful to remember that safety stops, 30fpm ascent rates and doppler limit considerations, computers with ZHL16, VPM, RGBM and other wonderful features came long after recreational scuba diving's birth. We (I & all the folks I dove with) dove the old Navy 60/60/60 (60 feet for 60 minutes with a 60 fpm rate of ascent directly to the surface with no stops of any kind) tables for over 20 years without a single case of DCS. By those standards today's practices have lots of gravy all around every parameter of the safe envelope.

I'm not advocating a return to the old ways - but I do keep them in my back pocket for emergencies. Put another way, the old Navy tables are for me in the "acceptable risk" arena when it comes to planning for and handling contingencies.

Also... gotta put in a plug for Dive Paradise here - I've used 'em several times and have no whines

Rick

 

[SailNaked]

rick, Im near enough to your age to remember the old ways. My first eye opening was when I tried to enter a few computer logs into my old log book and was converting to table dives, hmm lets see 65 min dive at 80ft well gee that does not work.

Dives with proper weighting because we did not have BCs only horse colllars. But not to hyjack a thread with memories of the good old days, I think we are way safer now, but with consideration for reality and it is not a near miss because we skipped a safety stop, got near 500# and could not find our buddy for a minute. or even for that matter stayed 56 min at 60 ft, when the old tables were 60 anyway.

 

[Ka3mgh]

My wife and I dove with Dive Paradise in February and did the Paradise Shallows dive 3 different times as the afternoon dive. Only once did we make it from the drop off spot to the mooring chain/cable near the cruise ship pier, this happened to be on our second day of afternoon dives. The DM we had that day immediately signaled that we were not to go any further and should being to surface and he deployed the SMB as soon as it was in sight. We were able to complete a typical safety stop and board the dive boat with no issues or excitement described in the original post.

All of that being said we were not told about the mooring chain/cable limit during the briefing to the best of either of our memories. Some of that may have been that when asked if we had done the dive before everyone on the boat had that afternoon, so maybe they assumed we were told on a previous dive briefing.

Again all of that being said, we did have one what I would describe as a terrible experience with one DM when we went to Chancanab Reef. He took off and swam into the current for some reason and wouldn't stop but that is another story for another day. But based on that experience I can definitely believe the OP got a less than vigilant to a not really caring DM and got closer than they should have to the cruise ship pier.

My personal take on this based on my experience and reading after reading this thread is --> If you are diving near a cruise ship pier ask if there is an underwater marker that signals the end of the dive regardless of the amount of air anyone has or remaining bottom time you are supposed to have if you don't hear about it during the dive briefing

 

[The Chairman]

Mistakes happen. I dove for two separate weeks with Dive Paradise and would have no problem diving with them again. A few thoughts:

First, currents are nigh impossible to accurately measure, especially at depth. I've been blown so off course that I have had to do a double take when I saw where the boat was. It doesn't happen often, but it does and can happen.

Secondly, when doing a drift dive, you don't ever swim into the current. Someone tried to explain the opposite as being Scuba 101, and that would be just plain stupid. It would be true if the boat were anchored, but not on a drift dive. The beauty of drift diving is that you get to go with the flow. Almost all the diving in Coz is a drift dive.

Thirdly, I have done almost the same thing in the US. We were getting loaded up and were in a dangerous place. The boat pulled us a couple hundred feet out of the problem area. Put your reg in your mouth and hang on.

Finally, there are a lots a dive op can control. Weather, waves and currents are not among those. There are certain practices done by all the Coz ops that I don't like. Foremost among them is that they don't tow a flag. Consequently, the captains sometimes have a hard time following their groups while they are under water.

In the end, you are responsible for your own dive. You can call a dive at any time and for any reason: no questions asked and no repercussions given.