Near-DIR diving: Are there DIR things you would probably never do?

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I don't think RJack was implying you wouldn't have procedures to deal with all these problems, just that your procedures might be different than his, thus prompting a longer amount of time discussing things on the surface.

I went cave diving with a guy who had been full cave / trimix certified by JJ before GUE existed and hadn't been doing cave diving in years. We went out and did two OW dives to practice skills and iron out differences in procedure before we even went down to MX to the caves. Then we still were finding out little differences as the week went along after >20 cave dives (e.g. little differences in reel handling protocols and having buddies applying tension on the line) and that was with a buddy who just needed to be caught up to date and had a strong motivation to adopt the newer protocols just to get on the same page in order to dive with other GUE divers. And that was just all within cave1 limits. After we left we handed him off to some other cave2 divers and they probably got him caught up on jumps, stage bottles, etc.

At that level there's a lot more going on that just agreeing on hand signals, OOA donation and gas management like you do on recreational dives.
 
I went cave diving with a guy who had been full cave / trimix certified by JJ before GUE existed and hadn't been doing cave diving in years. We went out and did two OW dives to practice skills and iron out differences in procedure before we even went down to MX to the caves. Then we still were finding out little differences as the week went along after >20 cave dives (e.g. little differences in reel handling protocols and having buddies applying tension on the line) and that was with a buddy who just needed to be caught up to date and had a strong motivation to adopt the newer protocols just to get on the same page in order to dive with other GUE divers. And that was just all within cave1 limits. After we left we handed him off to some other cave2 divers and they probably got him caught up on jumps, stage bottles, etc.

At that level there's a lot more going on that just agreeing on hand signals, OOA donation and gas management like you do on recreational dives.

So are there any actual caves where you live, or is all this training together with each other in prep for a trip to Florida or Mexico?
 
nereas, read the post. He did two OW dives prior to going to Mexico, and then cave dove IN Mexico with the guy for a week.

I've done a few cave dives with people trained by various instructors and in various agencies. In some cases, although their equipment was different, we were able to go quickly through some protocols and it was abundantly clear that they were on top of their game, good with technique and good with light discipline and communication. In others, I was really surprised to see the level of skill and discipline that had passed muster. There have been cases where, had I not been with an instructor, I would not have been comfortable to do the dive.

On the other hand, I know absolutely that if Danny Riordan passed somebody, they are AT LEAST as good as I am, and probably better, and we'll be on the same page everywhere.

I do OW dives with anybody (I love new divers, in particular) but I pick my sites and my conditions and I equip myself more or less for solo diving (i.e. doubles even in shallow sites). But in a cave, especially where I'm not very experienced and the stakes are really high, I prefer people whose training I understand. (Although two of my favorite cave diving buddies are NACD (I think) sidemounters :) )
 
So are there any actual caves where you live, or is all this training together with each other in prep for a trip to Florida or Mexico?

go away and come back when you don't need a scuba course to teach you math.
 
Maybe I'm naive, but I saw it as an honest question.
 
go away and come back when you don't need a scuba course to teach you math.

So I take it that you don't have any local caves then? But you like to practice all the time for when you do?

Sounds like the same way I feel about shipwrecks. Only you don't need signs and arrows in wrecks. Nicer that way.
 
I think those of us who have the cave bug think of almost nothing but getting back to the caves . . . and have to content ourselves with practice sessions with other cave folks, and planning the next trip!
 
I don't think RJack was implying you wouldn't have procedures to deal with all these problems, just that your procedures might be different than his, thus prompting a longer amount of time discussing things on the surface.
I think that´s what he was saying as well...

what I am saying is:
I don´t much care if you run your reel right or lefthanded, if you help take up slack when I´m reeling in, how you inflate your smb, if you place a cookie at jumps/intersections, if you isolate 1st or not etc etc...

If we are clear on the essentials and have a procedure for dealing with the "small stuff" and neither of us has an attitude of "my way or the highway", we´ll be able to have a safe and fun dive...and that´s why I get wet...

I did two dives today with a recent gue-f grad and my regular buddy (both of us on rbs)...admittedly a rec dive but...he did his s-drill and we did ours...he´s training for t1 so he used "proper signals, procedures etc" and we used "ours"(not much difference tbh)...no issues at all...if he´d had enough gas :wink: (and proper training) we could have done a deco dive just as easily...
 
I think those of us who have the cave bug think of almost nothing but getting back to the caves . . . and have to content ourselves with practice sessions with other cave folks, and planning the next trip!

Yes, reminds me of John Masefield's poem:

I must go down to the sea again,
To the lonely sea and sky,
And all I ask for is a tall ship,
And a star to steer her by.

Scuba is like that. Shipwrecks are like that. Caves, I imagine, are like that too.
 
Depends on what that instructor teaches that I don't like.

You can have the greatest instructor in the world, but if the student is not receptive to learning, or is close minded about some things then he's not going to get the full benefit of that instructor's training. On the flip side, you could have a student that is very eager to learn and pull whatever he can from a so-so instructor. The student will seek out the knowledge he wants wherever he can get it. By using multiple instructors, dive buddies, whatever.

That second quote pretty well summarizes what I was getting at. Judging a diver by who his or her instructor was assumes that the student doesn't have a brain.

I've taken classes from a lot of different instructors ... some of them GUE instructors ... and I don't dive exactly like any of them, or exactly as any of them taught me.

They gave me tools, knowledge, and a path to acquire skills. How I choose to use them is up to me. I understand a lot of different protocols ... the key thing is understanding the purpose of the protocols and when they're appropriate ... "rules" exist for a reason, and just about everything in diving is situational.

I think by the time a diver gets to the tech level, they're not hanging on the coat tails of an instructor ... they're seeking to gain skills and knowledge that they can use as appropriate to a given dive.

For those of you who will only "trust your life" to divers who have trained through a specific agency, or a given instructor, I ask you this ...

How do you choose an airline when you fly? Do you check the credentials of the pilot?

What about when you get into a taxi or hop on a bus?

'Cuz those activities are inherently more dangerous than diving with an appropriately trained and skilled diver. Yet you trust your life to people you know essentially nothing about without a moment's hesitation.

Five minutes worth of talking ... and a few minutes worth of in-water skills assessment ... and you'll know way more about that diver than you ever will about the next guy who takes you to 30,000 feet ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/
http://cavediveflorida.com/Rum_House.htm

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