Navigation

[Divejones]

Couple of Military ex military sharing their is experience is nice to see. being military single cockpit pilot myself one thing that really helped me was. On the desired course, pick up a point at a certain ground feature, navigate to it, before you reach there, pick another one on the same course and continue. In the late late eighties in non GPS, non On board nav age, moving thumb display in some mean MMFD, this aspect of 'Point-to-Point' nav really helped. It help me in scuba nav too, like i said earlier it caters to some extent for the drift and keeps your SA (Sit Awareness) high

 

[MSltr]

As a former soldier and private pilot, IMHO the single largest obstacle to accuracy for underwater navigation is the almost total absence of a map to rely on. I have never departed on trip by vehicle or aircraft to an unfamiliar location before I planned a route with checkpoints plotted on a map. As mentioned by others, there are nav slates for popular wrecks, but for elsewhere you are dependent largely on dead reckoning and your memory. My lack of confidence to wander beyond visual range of the anchor line is based on the lack of a chart of underwater features. For me dead reckoning depends too much on fixation of the compass face and fin count kicks at the expense of enjoying what I submerged to see.

 

[tracydr]

As a former soldier and private pilot, IMHO the single largest obstacle to accuracy for underwater navigation is the almost total absence of a map to rely on. I have never departed on trip by vehicle or aircraft to an unfamiliar location before I planned a route with checkpoints plotted on a map. As mentioned by others, there are nav slates for popular wrecks, but for elsewhere you are dependent largely on dead reckoning and your memory. My lack of confidence to wander beyond visual range of the anchor line is based on the lack of a chart of underwater features. For me dead reckoning depends too much on fixation of the compass face and fin count kicks at the expense of enjoying what I submerged to see.

The other problem I have is how do you keep count of your fin kicks without completely concentrating on counting? I either just count and don't enjoy my dive, or look at pretty fishes and don't count.
I have no problem doing navigation with enough visibility to see some features/landmarks, but in a very low visibility situation, I need to completely concentrate on fin kicks, keeping my compass level and trying to swim to the next object that I can see in my straight line ( which I have a hard time doing when visibility is really low)..
Underwater navigation continues to be a challenge for me, although I did okay in military navigation. In fact, it's something I continue to practice frequently in our local lake.

 

[Thiad]

I don't often count kicks. I tend to lose track somewhere after 5 or 10 anyways. It's underwater features and sound which serve me best.

 

[danpass]

As a former soldier and private pilot, IMHO the single largest obstacle to accuracy for underwater navigation is the almost total absence of a map to rely on. I have never departed on trip by vehicle or aircraft to an unfamiliar location before I planned a route with checkpoints plotted on a map. As mentioned by others, there are nav slates for popular wrecks, but for elsewhere you are dependent largely on dead reckoning and your memory. My lack of confidence to wander beyond visual range of the anchor line is based on the lack of a chart of underwater features. For me dead reckoning depends too much on fixation of the compass face and fin count kicks at the expense of enjoying what I submerged to see.

I had started another thread because of this fact. No brainer with a map ...... but without a map? What techniques are used?

I ended up googlefinding a PDF syllabus of some CMAS world underwater federation program http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...jvHqBg&usg=AFQjCNFjSitoNuh1fnkVlof7cYChCLgFqQ.

I just wanted to see what types of things would be covered (I plan on doing the PADI course eventually anyway) and they list things such as:

subtopic 2.1 using natural navigation aids​

natural references: ripples, bottom contours, life patterns,depth, light​

subtopic 2.2 distance evaluation​

tank pressure (use of depth gauge)
advancing time (watch)
number of fin's strokes (cycles of movement of fins)
arm spans​

subtopic 2.3 speed evaluation​

on surface; underwater​

Note: importance of current

maintopic 4 courses (trajectories) type
subtopic 4.1 go and back course
subtopic 4.2 square course
subtopic 4.3 rectangular course​

subtopic 4.4 triangular course

 

[boulderjohn]

As a former soldier and private pilot, IMHO the single largest obstacle to accuracy for underwater navigation is the almost total absence of a map to rely on. I have never departed on trip by vehicle or aircraft to an unfamiliar location before I planned a route with checkpoints plotted on a map. As mentioned by others, there are nav slates for popular wrecks, but for elsewhere you are dependent largely on dead reckoning and your memory. My lack of confidence to wander beyond visual range of the anchor line is based on the lack of a chart of underwater features. For me dead reckoning depends too much on fixation of the compass face and fin count kicks at the expense of enjoying what I submerged to see.

OK, here's one way to use a compass to explore a nice area with good visibility without obsessing on a compass dial or counting kicks.

1. At the bottom of the boat area, look around to get a feel for what that specific area looks like.

2. Look off in the distance in one direction you might like to explore. Find something distinctive as far away as you can see it.

3. Take a compass heading on it.

4. Forget about the compass for a while and start looking at the pretty things as you head out in that general direction. Don't count kicks.

5. As you explore and gaze at the coral and the fish, keep an eye on the landmark you observed earlier.

6. Eventually get to that landmark and explore around it.

7. Take a look at your compass. Your lubber line will show the way back to the boat. Find something that is on that heading.

8. Put the compass down and explore some more until you get to the new landmark, then repeat step #7.

9. Repeat the process until you are back at the boat. Now repeat steps 2-8 in a new direction.

10. Repeat steps 2-9 until you reach either the planned end time for your dive or the appropriate level of gas reserve.

11. Ascend and get on the boat.

 

[jewelofnile69]

I wanted to start out by saying that I'm really enjoying this thread and it's helping me to learn a lot as DH and I've been practicing our navigation before we take our AOW in August.

I'm ex military as well and agree with what the other vets have said. I had about 30 years of experience with land nav when I started diving and it was still a bit of a challenge to apply my nav skills underwater. The pace/kick count, or determining distance traveled was my biggest hurdle. I also found that I tend to swim a bit to the right when trying to move in a straight line without reference points.

I think it should also be noted that there are a fair number of people who can't navigate on land very well, much less underwater. Don't be too hard on yourself. A lot of people never do get it. My only advice would be to practice.....a lot! Learn your own faults and how to compensate for them. Then practice some more.

This is true...how many cadets/soldiers/marines/airmen/sailors failed land nav? Tons! But after lots of practice even those with the worst skills can get lost. I dated a former Infantry officer who was in a Ranger bat who apparently was very good at finding his way in the desert or woods but couldn't tell where in the hell he was in the streets of Oahu...I had only visited him there twice and could find my way around no problem. LOL!

There is normally no reason to count kick cycles. I have only done it once outside of instruction that I can remember, and it was for a very special exercise.

How you navigate depends upon the kind of terrain you are visiting. What works perfectly on a sloping wall dive in Bonaire is useless for exploring a wide, flat area in Key Largo. If you have a few key principles and skills, and if you use your imagination, you can figure out how to apply them in a given situation.

The normal reason you would use kick cycles is to navigate a square or triangle. Outside of an AOW class, there isn't much use for that. On the other hand, navigating a rectangle can be very useful for exploring a wide, flat area, In that case, you would turn your corners based on something like air consumption rather than kick cycles, making sure to return to a distinctive starting point (like a long, trench-like opening in a coral bed) with enough gas. If you tried to hit a specific point like that using kick cycles, you would easily miss because depending upon the current, the kick cycles in one direction would be quite different from the opposite direction.

So, don't worry too much about the kick cycles. If you use them twice in your life, you will be ahead of me.

Thanks, John! This is good to know (and it looks like 1 or 2 others asked the same questions).

In 30 years on land you probably learned to compensate for that but people do the same thing when land navigating with a compass. It is based on being left or right handed. You will come up slightly to one side of your objective over a long course and if I recall correctly, right handed people will come up to the right of the objective, left handed to the left. In the water I suspect it is even more so.

There was also an interesting study done that showed people can not walk in a straight line without a compass or visual clues. If you take someone into a large open field on a dark or foggy night and tell them "walk in that direct to the town that is 1/2 a mile away", they will always walk in circles but swear they are going straight. I don't recall if the direction they circle is related to being left/right handed.

Disclaimer: I was an infantry officer which meant that I was all at once totally responsible for navigating/guiding my units over large areas of land while being required to be incapable of reading a map or using a compass. Take everything I say with a grain of salt.

Yes, same as underwater and I also imagine worse than on land. You poor infantry officers! (But seriously, I was an adjutant general officer so aren't I supposed to get lost?)

A couple of years ago I went to a local dive site with someone who had only been diving for 6 months. The site has poor visibility characteristically, and it was worse than normal that day. The only thing of interest in the site is a sunken Cessna, its location marked by a mooring ball at the surface, secured to a block below with a chain. The plane is several hundred feet away from shore. This relatively new diver wanted to practice his navigation skills, so he took a heading on the mooring ball and we set off. I figured that if we missed to the left, we would hopefully hit the plane, and if we missed to the right, we would eventually be in water so deep we would know we had missed it.

Our trip out ended when he ran right into the chain under the mooring ball. Because of the visibility, we didn't see it until he was just about to hit it.

That's pretty good navigation for a beginning diver. It really isn't all that hard to do. What you need to do, though, is exactly what this guy did: commit to practicing it.

Thanks for sharing! This happened to DH and I a few weeks ago. Any of you from the Midwest and/or have dove Pearl Lake in South Beloit, IL? They've sunk a bunch of different things: plane, mini submarine, bus, tons of boats, a few statues (a great naked lady) and a bunch of training platforms. DH and I were there a few weeks back and we'd surface and take the heading from the marked buoy and then head under and one of us would navigate while the other ensured good buoyancy until we literally ran into most things (vis sucked). Then we'd pop up and get another heading and do it again. Did 2 dives totalling almost 2 hours of this. Helped teach me a lot. I just practicied in my yard on Sunday with a towel over my head (ran into the tree) so I did pretty good. LOL!

As a former soldier and private pilot, IMHO the single largest obstacle to accuracy for underwater navigation is the almost total absence of a map to rely on. I have never departed on trip by vehicle or aircraft to an unfamiliar location before I planned a route with checkpoints plotted on a map. As mentioned by others, there are nav slates for popular wrecks, but for elsewhere you are dependent largely on dead reckoning and your memory. My lack of confidence to wander beyond visual range of the anchor line is based on the lack of a chart of underwater features. For me dead reckoning depends too much on fixation of the compass face and fin count kicks at the expense of enjoying what I submerged to see.

Agreed! My new thing is getting a slate and writing degree and estimated distance on it before the dive. So if you see my reply to John just above, we'll be hitting the same place again and this time I'm going to take degree and estimated distance of all the underwater things I can and hopefully hit them all while not having to surface at all. I'll let you know how it goes...but I'm hoping this helps.

The other problem I have is how do you keep count of your fin kicks without completely concentrating on counting? I either just count and don't enjoy my dive, or look at pretty fishes and don't count.
I have no problem doing navigation with enough visibility to see some features/landmarks, but in a very low visibility situation, I need to completely concentrate on fin kicks, keeping my compass level and trying to swim to the next object that I can see in my straight line ( which I have a hard time doing when visibility is really low)..
Underwater navigation continues to be a challenge for me, although I did okay in military navigation. In fact, it's something I continue to practice frequently in our local lake.

See John's response above about most people not using kick cycles.

---------- Post Merged at 12:50 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 12:49 PM ----------

OK, here's one way to use a compass to explore a nice area with good visibility without obsessing on a compass dial or counting kicks.

1. At the bottom of the boat area, look around to get a feel for what that specific area looks like.

2. Look off in the distance in one direction you might like to explore. Find something distinctive as far away as you can see it.

3. Take a compass heading on it.

4. Forget about the compass for a while and start looking at the pretty things as you head out in that general direction. Don't count kicks.

5. As you explore and gaze at the coral and the fish, keep an eye on the landmark you observed earlier.

6. Eventually get to that landmark and explore around it.

7. Take a look at your compass. Your lubber line will show the way back to the boat. Find something that is on that heading.

8. Put the compass down and explore some more until you get to the new landmark, then repeat step #7.

9. Repeat the process until you are back at the boat. Now repeat steps 2-8 in a new direction.

10. Repeat steps 2-9 until you reach either the planned end time for your dive or the appropriate level of gas reserve.

11. Ascend and get on the boat.

Hi John. I like this idea. Thanks for the suggestion and I will try down in Key Largo over Labor Day weekend. Cheers!

 

[Jim Lapenta]

One of the things I include in my nav class is use of line and reel. Many quarries already have lines in them but the ones I use for the nav class are knotted. This allows students to actually measure kicks in low vis and make accurate maps. I recommend a slate or wetnotes as essential for uw nav as it accomplishes two main goals. One is to take notice of features and record details. The other is in order to do that buddy teams need to slow down and stop from time to time to make those notes. The other thing I have found that really builds confidence is to start with small patterns or legs. Build on those small successes as they help to reduce frustration and stress.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

 

[4dawgma]

I also found that I tend to swim a bit to the right when trying to move in a straight line without reference points.

This happened to me too. Turns out I just had my fins on the wrong foot. :depressed: Try switching your left and right fins....hope this helps!

 

[RonFrank]

Navigation IMO is not a beginning skill. Yes you get the basics in OW, but when you are having difficulty with buoyancy, and trim, and are overwhelmed by every new Fish you see, and your weighting is causing issues, and your mask is leaking, and you get separated from you new diving buddy as he is new as well, then you are plenty task loaded. Fortunately navigation is not that important for most dives. Unless your dealing with strong current in the ocean then it rarely matters.

If you get lost, surface, spot the boat, and swim to it. You will not get that far from the boat, and with no current swimming to the boat is not a big deal. When trying to navigate I generally do increasingly larger out and back patterns. I take a visual reference, then pick a heading and go out and back. Its great when you get a 100' vis day and the boat is in site most always.

John, I have done the plane navigation dozens of times. I would say that I miss the plane 25% of the time. It is a ways out, maybe 100+ yards, and its difficult keeping an accurate heading every time. If you know how deep the plane is you will not miss it by much. Just stop and swim to the surface once your past the plane depth.

That brings up another navigational aid, UW topography. On a shore dive you get deeper going out, shallow returning. This is true of all lakes. In the ocean there is generally some current, and I always swim into the current to begin the dive when possible. I also look for landmarks like a Brain coral, or something distinctive near the anchor line, not a Grouper. In CA you often see distinctive rocks rising close to the surface. Everywhere is different but there are variations underwater that can mark an area, and help with navigation. In Colorado you see toilets, and cars or planes! I think the compass is just one part of navigation.

Drift diving is generally easy navigation as the boat follows the divers.