Narcosis Properties of Different Gases

[gianaameri]

Dodge those questions! Ole'!!

Careful... popcorn is narcotic !

Sent from my HTC Desire C using Tapatalk 4

 

[ScubaSteve]

Careful... popcorn is narcotic !

What if it came from a flying pig and we read about it on the internet?

 

[gianaameri]

What if it came from a flying pig and we read about it on the internet?

Flying pig... you have been having a go again at that narcotic O2 bottle of yours, haven't you?

 

[nimoh]

Flying pig... you have been having a go again at that narcotic O2 bottle of yours, haven't you?

awesome! so we all agree now that oxygen is narcotic

 

[ScubaSteve]

Flying pig... you have been having a go again at that narcotic O2 bottle of yours, haven't you?

I am high as a kite flying on a narcotic mixture of Oxygen, Nitrogen and other assorted gases.

 

[gianaameri]

awesome! so we all agree now that oxygen is narcotic

Absolutely!

Incredibly narcotic.

I put my popcorns in tapperware and then flood them with O2 and the interaction between the narcotic properties of popcorn and the well known narcotic properties of O2 boosts the effects of either one of them.

Ask Bennett - he said so in 1970 at a conference and DAN repeated it, so it must be true!

 

[victorzamora]

I just read through this, and I saw this and needed to mention something.

Small quibble: the research cited earlier showed that O2 was almost four times more narcotic than N, in that it would produce the same level of impairment at only a fraction of the PP.

What's really interesting is that the level of impairment produced by O2 at 1.65ATA or N2 at 6.3ATA was only 10%. For either gas, that's about the same as doing an air dive to 230'. I'm familiar with narcosis like that, and while I find it workable under the right conditions, it doesn't feel like just a 10% impairment...and I think most others who have experienced that kind of narcosis would agree.

That is a small quibble. The point is, both researchers show that O2 is narcotic.

About the 10% impairment, a lot of studies have been coming out recently that show that the partial pressure of gases in a chamber has a much lower effect than it does underwater, even if in a drysuit. I don't know if the water has something to do with it, if the workload has something to do with it, maybe body position and/or effort level before the dive (dragging around doubles and deco/stage bottles) that makes it worse.....but PPO2 levels have to be increased significantly in the chamber to produce OxTox events when compared to in water. It wouldn't surprise me if the same thing caused narcotic effects to be different.

Assuming a linear scale (admittedly, I have no reason to do so), you'd have almost 75% of the impairment of a 230' air dive on EAN30 at 100' (1.2pO2), versus about 50% of that level of impairment doing the same dive on air.

About the linear scale, I don't think it's necessarily "wrong" to assume. For off-the-cuff or napkin-top calculations, it's not bad. However, the graph of oxtox/CNS/OTU's is DRASTICALLY different from linear. I'm assuming that graph is reasonably similar, at least in shape...but have no real reason to do so. I'm doing so because I'm placing the assumption on a similar behavior when dealing with partial pressures. The graph is asymptotic on both axes. It goes to positive infinity in both directions, is completely captured within the first quadrant, and looks like a (y=1/x+b) graph.

A huge problem with all of the research and assumptions and math and graphs is that people are different. I've been at 130' with a VERY clear head, and I've been at 90' narced till I couldn't see straight. Whole-world-spins, mind blown.

Gianaameri: will you concede the fact that, regardless of the narcotic properties of O2, assuming O2 is narcotic would lead to a safer and more conservative mix if using trimix. If not using trimix, then the argument is relatively moot.

 

[gianaameri]

Gianaameri: will you concede the fact that, regardless of the narcotic properties of O2, assuming O2 is narcotic would lead to a safer and more conservative mix if using trimix. If not using trimix, then the argument is relatively moot.

We are very close to agreement.

For dives outside the recreational envelope, given the research to date it would be prudent to treat O2 as narcotic (i.e. for Trimix or Heliox dives)

For a cave dive to 100', it would be imprudent to suggest the use of Air in place of N32.

For a 100' dive in the Maldives no current or drifting, the argument is perfectly moot.

An emergency drop to 18 - 21 meter using an O2 rebreather (as taught in military circles), the argument is also perfectly moot (O2 narcosis is never an issue, and if anything is bad with O2 at those depths you convulse before you narc out).

So, circumstances and environment are relevant.

 

[boulderjohn]

Why would oxygen be predicted be to narcotic via Meyer Overton, but isn't (according to you, and only you) at "recreational depths"? Why do all the major dive agencies, DAN, NEDU, and NOAA treat oxygen as narcotic, but you (one person) does not?

It isn't only him. There was another guy a year or so ago who went on and on about this as well.

.....but PPO2 levels have to be increased significantly in the chamber to produce OxTox events when compared to in water. It wouldn't surprise me if the same thing caused narcotic effects to be different.

One of the reasons that O2 narcosis has not been tested in isolation is related to O2 toxicity. To test effects in isolation, you have to test the gas at high partial pressures--where it can be shown to be the primary inducing agent. You can test the narcotic properties of nitrogen by putting people in a very high PPN2 and seeing the results. If you put people at a high PPO2, they tox.

 

[syntaxerrorsix]

It isn't only him. There was another guy a year or so ago who went on and on about this as well.

...

Did that poster have any linked research or were we to accept his word on it as well?