Narc Panic at depth

[surlytart]

The cause of the initial water in your reg is important to figure out. It could have been as simple as an exhaust valve malfunction or a crack in the housing or diphragm. The latter two would continue to leak during the rest of the dive.

I just had the set up inspected and the high pressure hose replaced a month or two ago. I suspect that it had more to do with learning to dive with a new labret piercing and panic together, though I'm no longer sure if taking a deep drink happened before or after the panic. Metal through your lip makes a few changes in your ombeture.

Oh, and dherbman - bingo, not the clown-o. I've been diving less than a year.

FWIW, my buddy reported difficulty drawing air from his rental reg at that depth. No clue on the model though.

 

[The Chairman]

Did you do a "trust me" dive, or have you really learned how to dive deep AND in a cavern?

At less than a year diving, this is a dive you should probably have passed up. Way too many divers trust OTHERS to lead the way without having adequate training or experience on their own. Avoid these situations. You don't to become a statistic by diving outside of your training and experience.

 

[daniel f aleman]

NetDoc could not be more accurate in his statements, or more polite.

 

[surlytart]

""have you really learned how to dive deep AND in a cavern?""

Fair enough.

At what point have you really learned to do something? I'm technically rated to the intended depth of the dive, but the only way to learn to do those things is to practice the skills, IMO, and that means diving it. As far as i can tell, being 'certified' is kind of academic in scuba; it gives little indication of skill or comfort level. It was certainly a guided dive, probably safer than doing it myself, with three DMs to 7 divers.

As for the cavern part, that's next on the certs list. I doubt this rates as it wasn't tight or fully enclosed. Grey area.

I never just trust someone else underwater. I like my life.

 

[verona]

What had been your deepest dive before this dive? Also, you say you are technically rated to the intended depth but you were at 145 ft which is below the recreational limit and also the limit for AOW. Definitely sounds like narcosis but also, as netdoc says, the dive you did is not a dive for those inexperienced at both depth and in overhead environments. You could always do deep and cavern specs to gain experience in a more controlled way. Anyway, glad you survived to tell the tale. These experiences are always good lessons.

 

[The Chairman]

Surlytart,

I am not trying to give you the internet version of the Spanish Inquisition here! However, I will hopefully cause you and others to think about what ALL of your limits really are. It's easy for us to see how air, time and depth limit our diving but all too often we forget the equally as important limits: training, experience and comfort.

The fact is, only YOU can determine if it was a "trust me" dive or not, just as only I can determine the same for me. You don't need to feel that you have to admit anything to anyone either: it is a private thing. Way too often, we substitute book learning or innate intelligence for experience, and in doing so we sacrifice some our safety. IOW, it would have been better for you to have experienced your first water aspiration in a pool or possibly on a reef, rather than at 145fsw! Is this something you could EVER get used to? Nope. But do it once, and you know to expect the tightness and to relax as much as you can and you are less likely to panic when it happens again!

 

[surlytart]

No worries, I wasn't taking it that way.
Luckily, I've aspirated plenty enough times that i 'know' what to do. Clearing a reg is second nature. Mechanics weren't an issue.

As I said, salient points all.

There's also the matter that, though the dangers of scuba are easily mitigated by training, time, and strict attention, the sport does have its inherent dangers that cannot be entirely eliminated. I suspect that's a minority opinion on this board, and I'm getting off topic here, but the point is that narc panic could happen to anybody. And, after all, that's the point of talking about it.

 

[The Chairman]

There's also the matter that, though the dangers of scuba are easily mitigated by training, time, and strict attention, the sport does have its inherent dangers that cannot be entirely eliminated.

I fully concur, and feel that those who minimise the possibiloity of DEATH do the sport and it's participants a complete dis-service.

NAUI, has come out with a video to be shown on the first night of every OW class. It's funny, but I learned about it almost by accident! I am still waiting for it and had no clue that this was now a part of standards!

 

[RiverRat]

Thanks for sharing surlytart! A good diver is always learning. I remember my first deep dive in G. Cayman. Not too smart, I was anxious, a little overweighted and lasted 20 minutes on a 110' + dive. I should of had sence enough to dive shallower until I got dialed in. No biggie though, I called the dive but I sure as hell made the DM's nervous! What??? Out of air already!!!! Of course it did not help that my new dive buddy was handing me her octo to "extend" the dive (a no no!) I politely passed and made a slow ascent with 500 psi. left and I felt like a real jackass. But long story short, I dialed in my weight and after several dives my SAC went through the roof and I had a blast all week. Stop, breathe, think and act works wonders! Getting back to the always learning thing, I hit a little deeper profiles than I've ever done before (130+ and one dive I hit 143) last Oct. in San Salvador. Many of the dives are deep because of the chimneys and such, if you go in/down you'll be deep, no choice unless you abort and if someone is behind you, well you gotta keep going). For the first time I REALLY noticed the narcosis. Much more pronounced at 130+ than at 120. I also understand that on any given day one's body can react differently. But anyway I sort of learned my "narc limit" if you will. Nothing to freaky but it really puts you in a mindset to basically work your way up realizing it'll go away soon. I just really relax at that point and go with the flow. But if **** were to hit the fan I can see how that much impairment could really slow down your reflexes! I was told that if one approaches deep depth SLOWLY instead of ramming down the last part fast that it may keep you from getting "slammed"?? Anyone know if there is any truth to that? Just curious. Anyway you all have fun and dive safe!

 

[drbill]

I am one of those fortunate enough not to be "significantly" affected by narcosis at depths down to 180 ft on air. I am capable of functioning as a videographer... spotting and framing subjects, and following any movement smoothly.

However, I know many folks who are significantly affected by it at depths half that or less. One of my instructor buddies who dives routinely to 160 ft was so badly narced at 192 that he came up from the dive (an attempt to free an anchor) white and shakey. His dive involved a bit of physical effort getting down and trying to free the anchor.

A person's physiology certainly plays a role in one's response to narcosis. I think narcosis is also strongly affected by the degree of physical exertion, stress level, breathing rates, etc. The few times I go deeper than 150 ft, I exert very little effort getting down there, move very slowly (intentionally) while at depth and rarely go into deco. I believe these are some of the reasons why I do not seem to feel "significantly" narced (subjective evaluation of course).

The fact that you experienced stress and hyperventilation in diving the Blue Hole probably contributed to the narcosis effect.

I would never recommend anyone dive the way I do unless they know their response to narcosis at varying depths and degrees of exertion (with a large enough data set to accommodate daily differences in the body's reaction), their response to emergencies, etc. Some have suggested that because I've been diving for 45 years I may have a physiology modified to cope more easily with the effects of nitrogen. I'm not a real doctor, I just play one on my TV show so I'll leave that to the MD's and human physiologists. However, I do understand the risks involved and accept them.