n2ition3 comments and questions

[no woryz]

Hello and thanks for letting me join this forum....Scott from Zeagle referred me here after I inquired about the 3 mix computer. I come here with questions and comments as seek input. I currently use a Oceanic veo 200 as a backup and recently upgraded my primary IQ-700 to the N2ition3 thinking the N2ition was the same platform but had a few upgrades. I was a little disapointed at my loss of bottom time as the N2ition NDL limits were much more conservative than IQ-700 and Veo 200....I was told these computers were the same at the shop but research after the fact shows that the 3 mix computers use a modified Buhlman algorithm where the IQ-700's use a more liberal Swiss 12-compartment algorithm. The loss of bottom time was significant on my 4th dive and varied by 26 minutes. Is there new data that reflects the need for the conservative algorithm? I am debating the pro's and cons and seek any input. I will test directly against a IQ-700 this weekend but I thought I would ask....Thanks, and safe diving to all.....

Clint

 

[no woryz]

I thought I posed a legitimate question and I was honestly seeking feedback from Scott and Gibby and other users....If I start the post with "I love Zeagle" will somebody reply....I have legitimate technical questions about the Z3.......Why does it clear my mixes after every dive? After the initial surface interval period, all 3 mixes are gone and have to be re-entered to plan another dive....I read that the mixes were there til midnight of that day then settings clear out..without assistance, I will soon be posting a n2uition3 in the classifieds......

 

[gibby_z]

Hey there Clint.

Sorry nobody got back to you. If you take a look through the forum you will find that there are 2 or 3 other threads that are addressing questions regarding the N2ition or its software. Personally I have been pretty wrapped up in finishing the download software so I haven't been quick in replies to other threads and if Scott told you to go here he was waiting for me to reply. So sorry about that.

Sooo....
Part 1. Conservatism.
The IQ-700 is the same computer as the original N2ition. Not the N2ition 3. Please make sure the safety factor is set to 0 while you are in the dive setup screens. This is the least conservative setting. Also double check that you had the fresh/salt setting correct. A fresh water setting done in salt water will add up by the end of 4 dives.

This past weekend I did 40 minuets at 120 feet and found that the decompression profiles for me using the N'3 and my buddy using the N'2 were almost identical. He did clear about 2 minuets before I did but the N'3 also has a deep safety stop feature that I had activated. What I did not do was multiple dives that day so I can't make the comparison between the N'2 and the N'3 but I will do so soon. They should not be that far off of each other.


Part 2... Mixes locking in.
I will double check the mix lock setting tonight.
I recall the settings still being there after each dive, but I might be narced.

 

[no woryz]

Thanks for the reply Gibby, I see you are busy with the software but I appreciate the help. There is very little feedback on the N2uition so far so I am stuck in the middle. The mixes cleared after every dive and I didnt see a option where I could have changed the settings by accident. In the program I did verify the user settings each time to be 100% sure that I was safety-0 and sea... What I have gathered by inquiry on numerous web sites is the different algorithms in use that separate Tusa from Zeagle and DiveRite...these are the three main computers me and my mates use so I excluded Aeris and Suunto. I lost considerable NDL time to the conservative n2uition3 and I was inquiring about the variance in the algorithms....why so far apart? is there something I am missing? I know when I use a 3 mix on my dives I will wish to be more conservative than when spearfishing but it just seemed excessive....any thoughts? I gave up my IQ-700 so I was unable to test side by side this last weekend, but I am making arrangements for the upcomming weekend to use both. I just want to maximize what time I do get in the water and I hate leaving bottom time on the boat unused...
Thanks, Clint

 

[no woryz]

I forgot, Arent the n2 and the n3 using the same algorithm? I understand from deco profiles that the additional deep stop somewhat penalizes a square dive profile but thats not a bad thing so that may justify the additional minor increase in deco. I have no experience in deep diving with the mod. buhlman alg. I am used to the Swiss-12 in the IQ-700 and it has served me well. I will continue to research and post if anyone is interested. Did you run a deco profile with an software based planner like V or Z, or deco-planner as a backup? I meant to do that but the N3 was droppen in my lap rather quickly so I failed to do so, I used the veo200 as a backup,but it is a liberal computer so my profiles were way off....

 

[Patient1]

I am just getting into the algorithms and history of...isn't Buhlman and the Swiss algorithm one in the same? They all seem to convert the unknown kinetics of gassing (non-linear) to the most basic linear kinetic profile. With each modification they get more conservative. Then they continue to modify the "middle" compartments then the slower compartments etc. but don't give their logic.

I think the Zeagle words it as the Bohrer mod of the Swiss 12 for the N3. If I remember right, the N2 was similar but based on only 9 of the samples. The first version of the software showed 9 bars, the newer version shows all 12 so aparently they are the same algorithm but the N3 is using all 12 samples?

It seems there is an infinite number of modified algorithms that will give different NDL values depending on what samples are used and how modified those M values are. How far off can these NDL's be from each other before labled conservative and liberal? I am still trying to understand how much of a gap there is between these limits being they are the suggested times one should linger in a grey area thats not 100% hit free. Are we talking just minutes, and is this worth it to the sport diver? Thanks for any input.

 

[Safety Stop]

I had one dive last week with my new toy for a 1:28 mins on air and I had 9 mins deco on 100% O2. Yesterday, I had a dive for 1:10 mins on air with a 13 mins deco on air. I was able to compare with my old Oceanic Versa Pro computer and I can tell, the N2ition3 is conservative compare to the old one. My buddy dove with his N2ition3 with nitrox 28% and was able to compare with his old Mares computer and they were almost no difference. So, the Oceanic is not conservative at all

 

[no woryz]

I am getting a few bugs worked out of the n2-3, The deep stops are a major factor in the deco obligations, I turned DS off and brought the NDL's back in a reasonable range. I do however still dislike the computer clearing out all of my mixes after a 10 minute surface interval, and my compouter also locked out during a dive last weekend as the low battery indicator came on during the dive completely rendering it useless. I have had 5 diving days and the computer has only sucessfully made it through 2 full days of diving before I would just toss it in the bucket with some type of problem. I am a little happier with the N2-3, but I dont feel I can trust it as my only computer even for spearfishing.....Just my opinion....dive safe....

Clint