My Venture into GUE - Another view

[LiteHedded]

Geez, how many times / ways do I have to say this -- I learned the GUE way of doing business. Period.

I had already learned the skills 'taught' in class. We did not get any of the 'how' of which I had been told -- "they put you on a floor, and manipulate your feet through the proper movements of the kick". Didn't happen! "They put your gear in the GUE standard and adjust it properly, and trim you out." Didn't happen!

They showed videos. Hello, I saw those same videos on YouTube! Just what was I supposed to 'learn'? That I didn't have perfect control of my buoyancy? Trust me, I ****ing well knew that!

they dont do that any more.
although my instructor did it just to bust my balls and take funny pictures...

 

[Doug Charney]

It would be nice to hear from Bob Sherwood, both sides of the story would be helpful.

 

[lv2dive]

If you ever want to do Tech1 you should practice that.

And its a combination of the timed descents and timed ascents. For bonus points throw in an OOG at 10 feet on the way back up (as gas expands its typically harder on the ascent) and still try to nail the buoyancy window and without popping. Staying in a triangle keeping the upline with the team (fourth buddy) is also important since you don't want to get task loaded on a technical dive and lose the upline. Some of the rest of the positioning information is important so that all the divers have contact with each other and nobody is going to have a problem and have the other divers fail to react.

So, there's a point to all that, and there's a reason why those are skills for the Tech pass in order to go into Tech1, because you really won't be happy with Tech1 if you can't do those.

Good information in general... From the teams working together that weekend in preparation for Tech1 it was clearly a required skill (well executed by them, nice to watch, btw) BUT I think it's safe to guess Jax isn't trying for GUE Tech1 any time soon

(and student #4 dips her toe in the thread <g>)

 

[ScubaSteve]

It would be nice to hear from Bob Sherwood, both sides of the story would be helpful.

I almost posted how much I respect Bob for refraining from posting in this mess. He is taking quite a beating and he is staying out of it. I give him credit.

 

[Jax]

So don't base your judgement of GUE only on that one experience.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Not going to happen, Bob!

Too many have been supportive . . . I look forward to widening my experience with DIR practitioners and given the feedback here, I know who to avoid.

I just wish I hadn't blown a year's worth of dive trips on that one class.

 

[Adobo]

Sadly, two of them don't come on the board anymore.

In spite of several respected GUE advocates opining that our class was not 'normal', that given that one instructor was an intern, it should have been only three people, and that the three of us that are opining in this thread are all believing we should have had more in-water time (and seconded by others), now it becomes turned around to be the students' fault.

I took this class for one reason - to see what all this GUE hype was about. I posted my trip report after conferring with others as to the appropriateness of the location and tone of the report. I was surprised and delighted at the support from others . . . notably the West coast.

However, the ugliness from those who cannot (or refuse) to believe that there may be a flaw in their beloved system brings this around full circle -- if this is the 'best' of diving, I don't want to dive like that. I just want to be a more skilled diver, and the snide remarks from the 'elite' about practicing my skills in a pool just proliferate the 'holier-than-thou' image. (West Coast excepted, thank you! )

Jax,

I follow this stuff probably more than you do and yet I personally cannot get a good read on what is "normal" and what is not.

I did speak with a friend who is in the know and was told that the size of your class is within standards. I do not think those standards are designed to optimize the experience for students. They are there to establish the boundaries.

On a personal note, while the West Coasts seems to have a healthier attitude towards GUE style diving (or, less egotistical anyway), we do have one or two of our own local "hard core" divers. I tend to shy away from those types as I don't want to dive that way either.

 

[Jax]

they dont do that any more.
although my instructor did it just to bust my balls and take funny pictures...

So how do you learn the 'proper' way to do the kicks?

Just watch the videos, and watch the video of yourself doing it? Funny - I've had my chops busted for doing JUST THAT . . .

 

[JB]

However, the ugliness from those who cannot (or refuse) to believe that there may be a flaw in their beloved system brings this around full circle -- if this is the 'best' of diving, I don't want to dive like that. I just want to be a more skilled diver, and the snide remarks from the 'elite' about practicing my skills in a pool just proliferate the 'holier-than-thou' image. (West Coast excepted, thank you! )

My question, is did you intend doing dives that required the skills taught in the course, or were you doing it to join the "elite"? I suspect that being a more skilled diver can be achieved in many ways,(horses for courses). I have followed these DIR bashing threads and read all about the infighting and the rise and fall of the WKPP, trying to understand what it is all about.

It seems to me that 20 years ago there were these absolute nuts doing crazy and dangerous things in caves, using that dangerous stuff enriched air and even trimix. The conventional diving world was shocked and wanted to ban them. The conventional dive world eventually caught up and started trimix, deco training etc. The paradigm has shifted and today there are these absolute nuts going into caves with rebreathers, sidemounts, no mounts and solo!! and the same explorers of 20 years ago think the new bread of adventurer should be banned! Is DIR obsolete now? At least GUE is moving with the times and introducing sidemounts.

So what is DIR? To me it seems like a system developed more than 20 years ago to improve the survival rate in that small group of cave explorers. My big question is what is the relevance to the majority of divers, who dive warm water tropical environements for fun on vacation? I suspect if you are not going into the environement that DIR was designed for, it's of little relevance to you.

The problem in many facets of life is that the harder it is to join / get accepted by a club, the more arrogant and elite you feel, when finally accepted. For most people diving is a means to an end, which to some is a reef dive in shorts and a T-shirt B/C and single tank, and for others is a deep cave penetration in dry suite, rebreather, or multiple cylinders. The problem comes when the dive becomes the end in itself. If you don't intend going into caves you don't need these skills, or certainly not at the level of a seasoned cave diver.

I must be old, I still think nitrox is overated for recreational diving, you have a good chance of surviving the bends, but zero chance of surviving oxtox. I think that more and more, those that don't need the skills, don't intend going into dangerous places on scuba, are now wanting to join the DIR group, as another notch on the belt, specialty course or whatever, and when knocked back resent the fact. Who is to blame for this? Partly DIR for being so arrogant and setting themselves up as the pinnacle of excellence, and partly divers doing the courses for the wrong reasons.

In the modern world you cannot fail a course, if at University, the lecturers have to bend over backwards and spoon feed untalented students in order for them to pass. Standards have been lowered, it's never an individuals fault, it is a fault with the system, someone else is to blame. Lets sue someone for discrimination.

All this is fascinating stuff, and it's entertaing to sit on the sidelines watch the arguments go back and forth. When I was younger, in my profession, I believed there were only 2 ways to sort out a problem, my way and the wrong way, hopefully I've matured since then.

 

[LiteHedded]

So how do you learn the 'proper' way to do the kicks?

Just watch the videos, and watch the video of yourself doing it? Funny - I've had my chops busted for doing JUST THAT . . .

well...I'm awesome and already knew

the way she taught trim was to have us stand up straight on one leg and push the leg we had lifted behind us. where you can feel your glutes tightening. then she told us to look for that feeling in the water. instead of the arching your back thing a lot of them will teach that will leave you with a sore back. she's a trainer and pilates instructor so she had lots of helpful tips like this.

she did the kicks on the video review and I believe she manipulated one guy's feet in the water. this guy dropped out and the other two of us knew how to perform the kicks so she didn't spend much time on this.

 

[LiteHedded]

nevermind...