My Venture into GUE - Another view

[TSandM]

Actually, it's almost too bad that we don't have an archive of awful Fundies footage to share. I think it might really give folks some moral support, if they could look at a film and say, "Wow, look at how bad she was, and she's Cave 1 now . . . maybe I can do it, too."

 

[lamont]

Actually, it's almost too bad that we don't have an archive of awful Fundies footage to share. I think it might really give folks some moral support, if they could look at a film and say, "Wow, look at how bad she was, and she's Cave 1 now . . . maybe I can do it, too."

better: every T2/C2 instructor *must* release their fundies footage.

 

[mikemill]

Dumb people never learn.
Normal people learn from their mistakes.
Smart people learn from other people's mistakes.

The best strategy requires that you can see other people's mistakes.

IMO This is absolutely wrong, at least in diving it is.

In my experiences it still applies to diving. I had an experience (aka was dumb) and during the debrief learned that the sand where I went was different from the sand where I wanted to be. The next time out there I briefed my buddy on the difference and when we got there we both realized we were in the wrong spot, backed out, and corrected ourselves without incident. My buddy therefore learned from my mistake. Hopefully, he'll remember it and brief future buddies and they'll also learn from my mistake.

Watching videos of others let me spot mistakes they made which I can then be on the lookout for myself. Some things (like finding the knot of a line, valve shutdowns, etc) need to be experienced first hand. Some things you can watch someone make the mistake and realize what is going on.

 

[ScubaFeenD]

The next time out there I briefed my buddy on the difference and when we got there we both realized we were in the wrong spot, backed out, and corrected ourselves without incident. My buddy therefore learned from my mistake. Hopefully, he'll remember it and brief future buddies and they'll also learn from my mistake.

Watching videos of others let me spot mistakes they made which I can then be on the lookout for myself. Some things (like finding the knot of a line, valve shutdowns, etc) need to be experienced first hand. Some things you can watch someone make the mistake and realize what is going on.

You specifically told him about the problem, which is a bit different from just passively learning from others mistakes. BUT, i see your point an acknowledge that some stuff can be learned from others without going through it. The difficulty, especially for people with little experience (like me), is differentiating what it is they need to experience to learn.

Lots of people go into fundamentals after seeing others make mistakes, but then make the same mistakes when actually pressured (the complaints and difficulties in each class are similar when you keep hearing them), which indicates to me that in most cases (especially when skill is involved) it isnt as simple as just learning from others mistakes.

 

[D_B]

coming from outside as it were , I think that seeing videos like those described by TSandM and suggested by Lamont would go a long way to illustrate what it's going to be like, the kind of issues, problems, and solutions that will be explored
Having a realistic idea of whats to come may give some an opportunity to be more prepared

 

[Gareth]

coming from outside as it were , I think that seeing videos like those described by TSandM and suggested by Lamont would go a long way to illustrate what it's going to be like, the kind of issues, problems, and solutions that will be explored
Having a realistic idea of whats to come may give some an opportunity to be more prepared

Then you get into the classic situation where I have to pick apart someone's valve drill and rebuild it, because they've learnt it from watching something on the internet.

At all levels within GUE it's easy to see which skills are required for the course - the standards are publicly available. The detail of those requirements, however, cannot effectively be learnt from the internet, or from youtube. This is why some people who overprepare for fundamentals end up struggling because I am picking apart their valve drill. They are so determined to obtain a pass that they forget the course is there to teach them these skills and they try to learn everything in advance.

So here's my advice on how to pass any GUE course, at least the ones i have done.

Fundamentals
Get your equipment compliant, and then get very comfortable in it, so that you know where everything is. Practice hovering in the equipment. Do a proper weight check. Turn up for the course with no baggage. Don't try and learn the course before doing the course. Then relax and go and have fun on the course

Tech 1
Write down all the skills you needed to do on Fundamentals. Practice them untill you have them to the point where you can do them without undue stress or it taking up a lot of capacity. Then relax and go and have fun on the course

Tech 2
Write down all the skills you needed to do on Tech 1. Practice them untill you have them to the point where you can do them without undue stress or it taking up a lot of capacity. then remember that you also need your fundamentals skills, and practice them until they are fluid and comfortable. Then relax and go and have fun on the course

GUE Instrucor training
Practice everything to the point where it takes up almost no capacity and you can do all the skills twice as slowly as you would normally do them. Then get a lot of sleep and turn up to the course open minded and prepared to accept the fact that there's a huge difference between sitting in the water looking cool whilst doing a valve drill, and instilling in other people a passion for diving, and a desire to improve and go exploring in any 2 feet poolof water they can find. Then relax and go and have fun on the course

 

[D_B]

I really didn't think about the training myself aspect of watching the videos, it was more about .. what am I getting myself into? aspect

... any prior learning I would get on anything like a valve drill would most likely come from a previous graduate ... You then could pick apart my bad form on doing them
(maybe should not practice anything not personally learned in a class? .. to avoid learning wrong/picking up bad form or habits?)

Thank you for your post
Being very comfortable in proper gear is one thing that seems to be a common failing (and putting great stress on your own self during/after class is another)

 

[Scott L]

Then you get into the classic situation where I have to pick apart someone's valve drill and rebuild it, because they've learnt it from watching something on the internet.

At all levels within GUE it's easy to see which skills are required for the course - the standards are publicly available. The detail of those requirements, however, cannot effectively be learnt from the internet, or from youtube. This is why some people who overprepare for fundamentals end up struggling because I am picking apart their valve drill. They are so determined to obtain a pass that they forget the course is there to teach them these skills and they try to learn everything in advance.

Nice post and other contributions lately. IMO the success of a fundies class is contingent upon the care that is taken by the instructor to determine the skill levels of the class participants and group them accordingly. When newbies are grouped with mentored tech pass ready divers you have the perfect scenario for a miserable class. In this situations, I would recommend that the newbie study skill videos on GUE's site or your quality website in order to give themselves a fighting chance of enjoying the class and not totally hinder the efforts of the already prepared divers. Once again, all this can be avoided by simply not mixing divers of much different skill levels.

 

[Gareth]

Nice post and other contributions lately. IMO the success of a fundies class is largely the care that is taken by the instructor to determine the skill levels of the class participants and group them accordingly. When newbies are grouped with mentored tech pass ready divers you have the perfect scenario for a miserable class. In this situations, I would recommend that the newbie study skill videos on GUE's site or your quality website in order to give themselves a fighting chance of enjoying the class as best they can and not totally hinder the efforts of the already prepared divers. Once again, all this can be avoided by simply not mixing divers of much different skill levels.

Two people come to me, one has 50 dives and one is an instructor trainer with 5000 dives (this happened to me). Both have paid the same fee, so both are entitled to the same level of coaching and instruction. Both are entitled to get their money's worth.

I don't see the goal of GUE fundamentals to pass the course. I get paid to make people safer, more confident divers. If on the way they pass the standards and get a result from GUE, great. But I will give them the same attention and try to improve them whatever level they are at.

I can't deny that a split course like you describe is the most challenging. However, matching people's skills is very difficult. It's often the case that the person with 50 dives has an easier time on the course than the person with 5000, because frankly they don't come with the ego that requires careful handling or the baggage that comes from having learnt different techniques. Sometimes, however, it pays to develop a relationship with students in advance and try to determine if the group will work. I am not afraid to suggest to students that a different mix will work better.

 

[TSandM]

Gareth, wonderful posts.

There are really some very basic things that will set folks up for a much better Fundies (or any other GUE class) experience. I've learned a lot of these things the hard way.

1. Don't change gear right before a class. It doesn't matter how good you are, gear changes can throw you off, and being thrown off adds stress to a class in which you are likely to beating yourself up, anyway These classes get scheduled way in advance, so you have plenty of time to acquire and use whatever equipment you are going to use during the class.

2. Wear appropriate exposure protection for the conditions, and be sure you are familiar with and comfortable in that exposure protection. Changing to a dry suit just before a class violates rules #1 and #2 The second half of this is, if you are diving dry, make sure your seals and zipper are in good condition, and consider bringing appropriate backup exposure protection in case you have a terminal drysuit malfunction. (Cave 2 would have been a lot more comfortable, had I heeded this one.)

3. Stability is the key to Fundies. Practice hovering while swapping regulators or removing and replacing a mask. There is no specific "technique" to these skills, so you aren't going to learn anything "wrong" by practicing them -- but it will give you a good idea of how stable you can remain while task loaded. If you are doing this kind of thing in a pool or without a buddy, make sure you note not only any depth variations, but also whether you are moving in space. Working as a team requires that you be able to do these things and remain STILL, or your positioning will suffer.

4. Class is kind of inherently stressful, largely because we are who we are. But being well-rested and well-fed helps a lot. One of the things the students in FL apparently weren't prepared for was not taking breaks for food. (We had a whole THREAD on appropriate Fundies snacks before my class, but I guess that information is no longer circulating as it was then.) Make yourself eat when you can, even if you aren't hungry. (Again, I would have had a better time in C2 if I'd done this.)

5. Develop a team spirit. It helps if you all stay in the same place. This is team diving -- we help each other and work together. Where you have students of different abilities, or if people are doing poorly, it's easy to get angry with one another, and that's not what we are supposed to be learning.

And a couple more that are my personal decisions, and may be arguable: If at all possible, do the class in conditions with which you are familiar. If you don't dive in current and try to do a class there, you've added unnecessary stress. If you don't dive in cold water or low viz, again, you're going to be stressed. I've seen a pair of students bail out of a class because they couldn't handle the bad visibility where they had traveled to take it (and those students subsequently finished the class at home without problems). If you can take a class at home, do it -- you have access to SO many more resources there, than you do if you have flown 1000 miles.

Pick your instructor. Although everybody who teaches for GUE has passed standards for a high degree of skill in diving, they are not all equally good teachers, and they all have different personalities. Being in a class with someone whose approach just doesn't work for you is not a recipe for a good learning experience. (This is another place in which traveling a long way for a class can work against you -- but if you are going to do it, really try to talk to some other students of that instructor to find out what his style is.)