My Thoughts on This Anniversary

[TCDiver1]

clive francis once bubbled...

All the Help and support over the years we have given you guys and you are still making us pay back the loans from WWII

How much is enough? You might want to take a little trip to visit all the American graves on your side of the pond.

You tell me, how much respect & support does that deserve?

IMHO the debt probably can never be repaid. The fact is you were toast without the help of many other countries. The USA was far from the only country that lost many good people in that war.

Show some respect! Is that what all those lives were to you, loans?

 

[John Mathieson]

Just how civilized are we?

I think if you seriously study humans, their history, and their emotional behaviour, you are forced to conclude we are a horribly violent, irrational and dangerous species. The very beginnings of our history are filled with murder and genocide - your relatives and mine killed every single last one of the neanderthals with their bare hands. This is what we are made of.

I see my American and English friends arguing over whose country harbours terrorists - does anyone know of a country, state or even a village that does not harbour someone who has committed unspeakable evil? It is a potential within us all. Look at the level of emotions that can rise on something as neutral as a scuba diving board, for heaven's sake. Just go to one of your kid's sporting events, and don't watch the game, watch the parents on the sidelines. Then give yourself a good look in the mirror, and think about what separates you and I from committing horrifying acts of violence.

It can be called the Thin Veneer of Civlization, or whatever you want - but it must be understood by all civilized men and women just how potentially dangerous all members of our species are, and how important the pact to abide by laws is.

Without a concious effort to restrain ourselves from our naturally violent tendencies, and to vigorously insist upon following the rules of civil behaviour, we are all doomed. Those who try to solve frustrating problems by acts of terror have to be universally ostracized and condemned. Whether acts of terror occur on "our" side, or on "their" side, it makes no difference - IRA, Protestant extremists, Hezbollah, Black Panthers or Ku Klux clan, or the radical Quebec separtists who kidnapped and murdered in the past - anyone who acts in this fashion must be dealt with without hesitation or doubt and with the greatest of resolve - because the danger within our species is so powerful, and so close to the surface.

Anyone who likes to pay a lot of money and go to a great deal of trouble to spend a few moments in the underwater world where there is no sympathy, no bilateral agreements, no peace treaties - just eat or be eaten - should have no trouble seeing the reality of this.

 

[clive francis]

gedunk once bubbled...


How much is enough? You might want to take a little trip to visit all the American graves on your side of the pond.

You tell me, how much respect & support does that deserve?

IMHO the debt probably can never be repaid. The fact is you were toast without the help of many other countries. The USA was far from the only country that lost many good people in that war.

Show some respect! Is that what all those lives were to you, loans?

well at least we had the balls to say from the outset if you invade we will do something about it!

you guys sat back and let it happen

and don't lecture me on respect!!!!!!!

I lost family in both wars!

 

[clive francis]

gedunk once bubbled...


IMHO the debt probably can never be repaid. The fact is you were toast without the help of many other countries. The USA was far from the only country that lost many good people in that war.

I wonder how you would have faired if you were constantly being bombed day and night by hundreds of aircraft and long range missiles?

You had the luxury (apart from Pearl Harbour) of residential areas not being bombed.

 

[SM Diver]

clive francis once bubbled...
you guys the US have been funding this sort of thing throughout the world via the CIA for years, and you have been funding terrorist activities in the UK since the first world war via the IRA collections in the US.

Clive, quit trying to sugar coat what you said by explaining what you "meant" to say.

You made an accusation that Americans, past and present, have been funding terrorism "throughout the world" and "in the UK." You didn't accuse a small American cell, or harboured individuals within our boarders, you made a blanket accusation of the American people.

Even more disturbing is the fact that you chose the anniversary of 9-11 to post your paranoid and delusional viewpoints, showing not only a lack of sense, but a lack of taste, as well.

The sad thing is that this thread started as an opportunity for us to relate to one another on the highly emotional anniversary of this massacre. Some of us shared our view points, others talked about where they were. The last thing anyone needed was you coming in here and making meritless accussations against our proud Country.

 

[DennisW]

Clive,

Your total lack of understanding and your misconceptions are completely amazing. I am so happy that most of your countrymen and women are friends and allies. People like you should learn to keep their thoughts, pens, and words to themselves. You only continue to show your ignorance.

I have refrained from reminding you, because the citizens of the US are friends and allies of the UK, but you should take a look at history one more time. Your kind of ignorance was removed from the United States about 221 years ago very near where I am today in Yorktown, Virginia and again 188 years ago.

The US came to the aid of the British people in WWII. I have relatives that died, helping your people. My own father, who could have remained out of the conflict because of religous reasons, chose to fight and, in his mind, damn himself to hell, to protect your people, the jewish people, and the world. I cannot imagine the courage it took to make that decision.

So, this is enough. Take your ignorance to another thread. I for one, am tired of it and will make no more responses to the spew.

 

[TCDiver1]

I'm in total agreement with you DennisW, some people can not be reasoned with. And i am sorry i helped this thread off course.

Like many people, i have a hard time letting statements like Clive has made go without response. His type demands respect and capitulation to his way of thinking without considering ANY other viewpoints. We all have a right to an opinion. Mine is that many of his statements blaspheme sacrifices made by many people of many nations in that war. That includes all English sacrifices by the way Clive. Yes, i am sorry for and respect any sacrifices made by your family. To bad you appear to be above that type of thinking for anyone else.

By the way you might want to take another look at your history books about who was trying to "sit back and let it happen."
The US was not the only country with isolationist feelings back in the late thirties. Look up an English guy named Chamberlain and his actions, therefore Englands, prior to WWII. So nice try, but that argument does not wash either.

Clive, if you care to discuss this further, please feel free to Pm me. Your not the only one that lost family in those wars.

I am with DennisW on this. I will not respond to any more of your comments on this thread.

 

[clive francis]

but i don't think you guys have listened to me i have never condoned what has happened.

i said that the US and the UK had funded these guys during the Russian conflict, and it has turned around and bit us.

and it is not the first time it has happened!

so rather than slating me for being inconsiderate, ignorant or heartless, perhaps we should look to our governments to stop messing with other peoples affairs, if you stick your fingers in other peoples pies, you are going to get burnt sooner or later.

and I never meant the whole American nation funded the IRA, but it is ironic the part that did has recently suffered.

i guess what they sat about what goes around comes around is true, which should be a lesson for us all to live and let live

 

[CuriousMe]

clive francis once bubbled...
<snip>.

and I never meant the whole American nation funded the IRA, but it is ironic the part that did has recently suffered.

i guess what they sat about what goes around comes around is true, which should be a lesson for us all to live and let live

It's amazing how tactless and heartless you can be. As an Irish-American NY'er (who BTW has never donated to either side of the terrorist fight between Ireland and the UK....cause there are two sides to that, the violence isn't only on one side) I don't know that I've ever been more offended. If you're deliberately trolling, you have picked a lousy topic to do it on.

My father, who is obviously also an Irish-American NY'er, was late to his meeting on 9/11/01, and we've been thankful ever since...needless to say, he still mourns his lost colleges and friends......to even imply that anyone there deserved what they got is unspeakable.

You won't see my reply to you on any post as I'm adding you to my ignore list.

Peace,
Cathie

 

[clive francis]

how many times do i have to say that i never said it was right what happened!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

are you stupid or just not reading any of the threads, you and most people seem to be wearing blinkers, picking one part out and ignoring the rest.

i said it takes two to tango, and that we the civilised world should stop messing with other peoples lives/interests.

you may have not contributed, but that doesn't mean other people don't have the same moral standing as you.

but it is a well none thing the collection plate, and people have been ignoring it, ignorance is not bliss.

it is often said that it takes an accident to avert another, it was unforunate that so many people had to suffer, but hopefully some good will come of it and our governments will do the right thing.

but the way things are going at the moment, we are going to be making the same mistake the the UK has made with Northern Ireland, it will go on for ever and cost more lives.

feel free to blank me but this is a free world and we live in free countries where we are able and entitled to talk freely.