My steel doubles and wetsuit - no mix?

[Big-L]

Tobin, I'm not saying drysuit is NOT the redundant buoyancy device. it WOULD be for a drysuit diver... and for a wetsuit diver, a dual bladder.

As for me reviewing DIR diving, for consistency sake I was doing exactly that while writting my previous post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big-L
Let's look at that gear configuration again:

At the surface w/ tanks Full:

7mm Suit: + 20 lbs.
2 x PST 104 full @ -11.5 lbs. = -23 lbs.
Band and Manifold ~-4
Dual Regs ~-4
AL Plate and Harness ~-2
---------------------------
Total -13 lbs. I think this is manageable. Add a breath of air in your lungs, the number is less.

Lets see how long you can tread water in your swim trunks if I hand you 13 lbs of lead.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Big-L
At the surface w/ tanks Empty:

7mm Suit: + 20 lbs.
2 x PST 104 full @ -3 lbs. = -6 lbs.
Band and Manifold ~-4
Dual Regs ~-4
AL Plate and Harness ~-2
---------------------------
Total +4 lbs. The diver is positive. Add a breath of air in your lungs, the number is more.

Your diver is underweighted.

Its same same scenario with empty tanks vs. full tanks...

When we start talking about thermal protection, drysuits win hands down. I'll give you that... I enjoy the feeling of water, I find it refreshing on my skin, I find myself being more comfortable when I'm cool rather than warm/hot.... but if the temperature gets to a point where 120 minute dives is not possible with a wetsuit, i adjust the way I dive. Plan shorter dives or don't dive at all. I've spent enough money on neoprene to buy myself a drysuit but I choose to dive wet because I like it and the exposure suit i choose to dive with should dictate if I can wear duals or not

 

[cool_hardware52]

As for me reviewing DIR diving, for consistency sake I was doing exactly that while writting my previous post.

I'd repeat the exercise. I suggest enrolling and attending a GUE or UTD course.

When we start talking about thermal protection, drysuits win hands down. I'll give you that... I enjoy the feeling of water, I find it refreshing on my skin, I find myself being more comfortable when I'm cool rather than warm/hot.... but if the temperature gets to a point where 120 minute dives is not possible with a wetsuit, i adjust the way I dive. Plan shorter dives or don't dive at all. I've spent enough money on neoprene to buy myself a drysuit but I choose to dive wet because I like it and the exposure suit i choose to dive with should dictate if I can wear duals or not

I enjoy wetsuit diving too, and sometimes do so in singles.

OTOH to argue that wetsuit + redundant wing = drysuit + conventional wing simply displays a lack of understanding.


Tobin

 

[Gombessa]

I find myself being more comfortable when I'm cool rather than warm/hot....

Feeling "cool" in the cold water and doubles is quite an understatement of the problem, and cold water divers are really not "warm/hot" even in a drysuit, just a whole lot less cold (and wet). Like many things in life, you need to have some experience in a drysuit to really understand what it does and doesn't do.

Wouldn't an empty drysuit yield the same result?

What Tobin didn't elaborate on is, if we're talking apples to apples, your dual-bladder wing or other secondary lift device just catastrophically failed too. The above quote isn't how drysuits work or how drysuit divers account for their buoyancy vis a vis wetsuits.

What I wrote above was very logical. It makes sence. In practice it works and can save your life.

I do enjoy your enthusiasm and curiosity, but with all due respect, I suggest that you haven't yet developed a real understanding of the issues you're lecturing people about.

 

[wedivebc]

I do enjoy your enthusiasm and curiosity, but with all due respect, I suggest that you haven't yet developed a real understanding of the issues you're lecturing people about.

Very tactful

 

[walke121]

I'd repeat the exercise. I suggest enrolling and attending a GUE or UTD course.

Will GUE even start tech training a diver with less than 100 dives???

 

[Big-L]

Gombessa, where's the lecture? You're all lecturing me about the effectiveness of a redundant wing, and for some reason, after every arguement I present you guys keep changing the subject. This was about redundant bladders and now its gone to drysuits vs. wetsuits.

I know what a drysuit does, I've used one, I've had to wear one during a surface interval. Don't act like you know me when you don't.

I'll dive my damn wetsuit because I want to. I'll dive with doubles with a wetsuit because I have explored the consequences and I have the ability to manage problems as they arise.

The gentleman who originally posted asked if he can safely dive steel doubles in a wetsuit.

Yes you can, with a redundant buoyancy device. Drysuit or dual bladder BCD.

Which is safer, more right than wrong, or if the DIR "god" is going to strike you with lightning is a matter of opinion.

Granted those with more dives than myself have more experience and I won't take that from you but I'm not an idiot and I know what I am talking about.

I'll keep doing what I do.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Will GUE even start tech training a diver with less than 100 dives???

You don't need a 100 dives to take fundies in doubles.

It's hard to believe the merits of diving doubles in a wetsuit in the ocean won't be covered.

You do need to be at least 16 years old and capable of learning to make the course worthwhile however.

Tobin

 

[Gombessa]

Gombessa, where's the lecture?

I already quoted one of several instances where you're telling people how it really is, what works and what is safe. But you make a number of ambiguous and incorrect statements about drysuits and rig buoyancy, which strongly suggests that you don't have much or any experience with the subject. It's true, we don't know you, but we know what you've said about the subject, and any conclusions we have to draw are based on the words you yourself have provided.

I know what a drysuit does, I've used one, I've had to wear one during a surface interval.

Is this your only experience with a drysuit? Wearing one on a surface interval? If not, it doesn't seem consistent with your prior admission:

I'm a wetsuit diver, always will be (perhaps a dry suit one day, because I would like to learn all aspects of scuba diving)

The gentleman who originally posted asked if he can safely dive steel doubles in a wetsuit.

As you probably noticed because of your edit, we didn't change the subject, which was never "originally about dual-bladder wings." My response to you was directly quoting your own statements about drysuits. And it seems to me the current discussion of the benefits and drawbacks of various forms of redundant buoyancy with doubles is still on topic to the original post.

Best regards.

 

[cfenton]

Gombessa, where's the lecture? You're all lecturing me about the effectiveness of a redundant wing, and for some reason, after every arguement I present you guys keep changing the subject. This was about redundant bladders and now its gone to drysuits vs. wetsuits.

I know what a drysuit does, I've used one, I've had to wear one during a surface interval. Don't act like you know me when you don't.

I'll dive my damn wetsuit because I want to. I'll dive with doubles with a wetsuit because I have explored the consequences and I have the ability to manage problems as they arise.

The gentleman who originally posted asked if he can safely dive steel doubles in a wetsuit.

Yes you can, with a redundant buoyancy device. Drysuit or dual bladder BCD.

Which is safer, more right than wrong, or if the DIR "god" is going to strike you with lightning is a matter of opinion.

Granted those with more dives than myself have more experience and I won't take that from you but I'm not an idiot and I know what I am talking about.

I'll keep doing what I do.

I agree that what you're saying is logical - you can dive steel doubles relatively safely in a wetsuit using a double bladder wing. Again, I agree.

Is it optimal? No. I feel pretty safe in saying that 99% of technical divers would agree. So the question really becomes: Why would you dive a set up that is less than optimal?

I remember when I was in my first year of diving and I finally had a complete set of dive gear (including wetsuit) and a pocket full of PADI cards. I thought that I was good to go and wouldn't need to buy anything else. A couple of years later I was in my drysuit and doubles, at my first tech class and I made the statement that "I finally had everything I need". My instructor roared in laughter. Now I have close to 30 tanks, several drysuits, scooters, a compressor, a booster, etc. etc. I now know better than to make that statement again.

Be careful of trying to convince yourself that your current gear, or way of doing things, is complete. Six years and almost 1000 dives into this thing and I'm still learning new stuff all the time. And, I try to do a lot more listening, than talking.

 

[Big-L]

...I've used one...

That generally means I've used one.

My quote earlier about being a wetsuit diver was based on the fact that I AM a wetsuit diver. I'm not going to claim I am a drysuit diver if I've used one less than a handful of times.


And if you're understanding my posts as me "telling it how it is", then you need to open your eyes and read everything that is written by other contributors.