My own equipment not allowed for Open Water class?

[Belzelbub]

I am curious if you already had a relationship with the shop before your daughters were certified through them? If you knew them, did they allow their own gear because they trusted you to be sure it was up to standards? Was their own gear a lot different from what the DS is using in class?

I do now, and did for my second daughter, but can’t recall from the first daughter. If I did, it certainly wasn’t long term.

Their gear was a bit different than the rest of the students’. Back inflate vs. jacket, DIN regs, their own wrist mounted DC, etc. The instructor did point out their different gear to the other students as an awareness of different types that they may encounter.

 

[M-Cameron]

So you haven't seen their rider....are making assumptions...and claiming them as fact with no first hand knowledge....got it

 

[Horgh]

If a shop or an instructor can't take 5 minutes to check out your gear and see that it's safe, they are not worth even considering. The insurance line is crap. They just don't want other students to see stuff they do not sell.
I never refused a student who wanted to use their own gear for open water once I had a chance to look it over and make sure it worked. If a student showed up with a double hose reg and horse collar BC I would have let them use it as long as there was a way to have an octo on it.
In my opinion, you having your own gear for open water is less wear and tear on mine or the shop's rental gear and it gives you a leg up on getting comfortable with the stuff you will actually be using.
There is little to no difference between PADI and SSI standards for what has to be covered.
However, PADI does allow, though doesn't really go overboard in supporting, independent instructors.
SSI does not allow independent instruction and their model is based on supporting the shop and selling you as much gear as possible.
The industry model is more and more geared towards supporting the business over the student in some ways. It's why I wrote my books and why there are separate entire chapters on choosing an instructor, shop, and courses.
Don't restrict yourself to PADI or SSI either. Look at the other agencies. SDI, NAUI, SEI, PDIC. As soon as someone tries to discourage you from using your own new, functioning, safe gear.. Run like hell.

Thank you for the feedback, I really appreciate it. In fact I appreciate ALL of your feedback and I didn't mean to start a flame war here. I hear what you all are saying and there are valid points on both sides of course. At the end of the day I understand my personality and how I learn, I also understand my budget. I want local shops to stay in business (which is why I buy stuff locally in many cases), but I also don't like being cornered into a purchase, especially if the reason seems questionable.

I'll check out the other agencies as well as GUE, that sounds like a good idea.

 

[Belzelbub]

Lawyers will go after who is actually liable. That would be the manufacturer if they sold a defective product or the shop who did the servicing.

That’s a very good point. By insisting on gear that they rent/sell, they may be adding more liability.

I was in a class where a student had an emergency during the dive. I know the shop and owner fairly well, so asked about it. He immediately had to file a claim with his insurance. After EMS left with the student, he asked the rest of the students to provide a statement, etc.

A few days later, I stopped by and talked to him about it. He indicated that the gear was neither sold or serviced by their shop. His insurance was pleased with these two facts, as that moved some potential liability elsewhere. In the end, it was not an equipment or instruction problem, the diver suffered An IPE, but has since recovered.

 

[Boarderguy]

Just as an FYI my wife did her open water with all her own gear. It happened to be my backup kit that I outgrew, but it was serviced 5-6 months before her class. There was no difference in price for her class but she used stat she brought. The instructor saw it get used when they assembled the kits during class and at the pool. He did have a setup ready for her to use just in case... in a side note, her pull dump cable broke on the second dive (old gear). Gear breaks, accidents happen, plan for what you can and be ready for what you can't.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

He indicated that the gear was neither sold or serviced by their shop. His insurance was pleased with these two facts, as that moved some potential liability elsewhere. In the end, it was not an equipment or instruction problem, the diver suffered An IPE, but has since recovered.

Even properly serviced gear can fail. If the shop provides detailed records of the service being done, the certification of the technician, etc., they should not be found negligent/liable.

That's why the skills included in open water are there. I do believe that the WRSTC has established a set of skills that is the minimum of what a new diver needs to learn to dive safely.

Sometimes you do everything correctly and you are just unlucky. Everything has a probability of failure. So sometimes it is simply your turn.

 

[TerryC]

Their business, their rules. We may not agree but we need to accept it.
Nobody's saying you must train with them.
Have you considered going to the Padi shop and actually having a conversation with the instructor? You may be surprised.
I would be happy to train you in your own gear, long hose? No problem, Air2, great let's show it to the other students. Gear failure? It's a learning opportunity, gear, no matter how new or well serviced, does fail, sh*t happens.
I would run a mile from any shop with a "must use ours" policy. A " bring it in before the course for checking" is reasonable.

 

[Horgh]

Their business, their rules. We may not agree but we need to accept it.
Nobody's saying you must train with them.
Have you considered going to the Padi shop and actually having a conversation with the instructor? You may be surprised.
I would be happy to train you in your own gear, long hose? No problem, Air2, great let's show it to the other students. Gear failure? It's a learning opportunity, gear, no matter how new or well serviced, does fail, sh*t happens.
I would run a mile from any shop with a "must use ours" policy. A " bring it in before the course for checking" is reasonable.

I actually did just that, I reached out to the PADI shop and gave them my number to pass on to the instructor. Hopefully he'll call me, if not, I'll try to hunt him down

In the meantime I called 2 other shops much farther South of me. One is PADI/SSI and they said no problem on bringing my own equipment. The other is SDI and they said no outside equipment unless I buy form them.

 

[BoltSnap]

I was trained to dive at a university and taught at few also one of them was a graduate school for oceanography. In all cases the students had to use the university supplied equipment nothing else or, in the graduate school for oceanography, had to buy their own equipment based on a very specific and defined list of what is acceptable to use in the school's program with no variations were accepted at all. In all cases the programs had a specific way of doing things with specific equipment at a specific standard.

I don't find any fault with this dive shop's requirements and it isn't an exception at all.

 

[runsongas]

if you're already set on getting DIR regs and a bpw, just go take gue rec 1. costs the same really as ow/aow/nitrox rolled into one.