My own equipment not allowed for Open Water class?

[Horgh]

1. I do not go into a pool with any gear I use in the ocean. Pool water is very hard on the gear.
2. With no scuba certification a business in the USA sold you scuba gear. Interesting. No further comment. on this.
3. As you are already paying for the use of their gear (it was as you said included in the price of the course) then why not. You too need to learn the other side of the house and the common beginner diver gear which you will often see on the boats too.
4. Congratulations on your decision to buy Backplate and Wing. Modular and position you horizontally in the water. Vest BCDs are not normally used in tech diving as tech diving often involves diving doubles, and the jacket BCD is not equipped to handle that.
5. For the advanced course for example my certification agency requires students to supply their own equipment.
6. I have not heard of this brand before. But then there is a whole host of things I have not heard of so don't put a lot of stock in what I or others have heard of.

I see on their website that their business model from day one was to sell dive gear strictly on the Internet. The vast majority of SCUBA Equipment MFG to not permit online sales unless you also have a brick-and-mortar store. Why is this important? Well, Brick and mortar stores make a profit off the equipment they sell. Most will match internet prices from authorized dealers. But when you are buying from the internet remember to ask yourself the following questions:
a. Where will I get my equipment serviced.? The shop that sold you the product is normally also a certified repair facility for that brand. So will you have to mail your gear off every year for service?
b. Where will I get my air fills? If the local dive shop (called LDS) is not selling and servicing your gear their bottom line suffers. This translates into fewer LDS. That means you will have to use the USB AirFill adapter. We all know the USB Airfill adapter simply does not work.

I appreciate the candid reply, but you made a few wrong assumptions. I'll reply with your numbering:

1. This is an interesting point and would be a reason to use the rented gear for the pool session. However, it's the first I'm hearing of this, and am I not correct in assuming that people train in pools to practice drills and whatnot before they practice them in the open water?
2. The only thing I have purchased so far is a mask, snorkel and booties, and I got all those from the LDS (the PADI one, because they had a better selection). I was planning to buy everything except for the BP/W and regs from the SSI LDS, UNLESS they were going to seriously upcharge me on a Shearwater computer. So, for example, all exposure stuff would be bought from the LDS.
3. The gear is included in the price of the course for the pool session only. To then do the open water portion they want $275 for the same gear, THAT is where I have a problem with this since that's $275 I can put towards my own gear, the stuff I actually want to learn with.
4. Exactly
6. You haven't heard of Deep 6 or of DGX? I thought both were pretty well known and respected on this board.

Lastly, I understand the reason for wanting the LDS to stay in business, same reason I want my LGS to stay in business. But in my opinion, a good LDS like a good LGS will stay in business by offering fair prices, good service, and a customer-focused attitude. I have no problem being a repeat customer and paying a reasonable upcharge locally to make sure they're around to fill my bottles for the next few decades. But I expect honesty and customer focus in return.

 

[formernuke]

All the organizations follow the same standards. Shop instructor not agency. The skills science etc don't change.

As for using your own gear if you came to me with that request I would need to verify that it is in good working order first for liability reasons. Several ways to do that but would need to be done.

Some shops and instucors do have problems with certain types of gear. One shop up here considers bpw to be tech gear and it wouldn't surprise me if they would say no to a student using one.

Me I would say no to a air2 type device.

 

[Horgh]

All the organizations follow the same standards. Shop instructor not agency. The skills science etc don't change.

As for using your own gear if you came to me with that request I would need to verify that it is in good working order first for liability reasons. Several ways to do that but would need to be done.

Some shops and instucors do have problems with certain types of gear. One shop up here considers bpw to be tech gear and it wouldn't surprise me if they would say no to a student using one.

Me I would say no to a air2 type device.

That is completely reasonable and I would have hand-delivered the Deep 6 regs to the instructor to inspect, in fact I would love for that to happen. But it was a hard "no" without any options. Also, I think air2 devices are ridiculous

I found out who the instructor is for the PADI shop, he seems well liked, but haven't spoken to him yet. I'll try to make that happen this week.

 

[TMHeimer]

I've never seen an entry level class that doesn't supply the SCUBA equipment (student must have their own fins/booties, mask, snorkel) for the confined water portion, and that was included in pricing. At the check out dives, you must have all gear (rent, own, borrow).

Exactly. Don't pay to rent the shop equipment for an OW course. I suppose you could say that the rental cost for most shops is included in the cost of the course. Doesn't make business sense to me to charge extra for the stuff, but that's just me. Seems like nickel & diming the customer.

 

[Belzelbub]

1. This is an interesting point and would be a reason to use the rented gear for the pool session. However, it's the first I'm hearing of this, and am I not correct in assuming that people train in pools to practice drills and whatnot before they practice them in the open water?

It’s true to some degree. My buddy’s old BC was a shop‘s former rental/trainee gear. The fabric was definite faded. More of a medium brown than the black it started as.

However, that was shop gear with an on-site indoor pool. A lot of hours spent in the pool, and likely hung up around the pool after use. For the limited amount of pool time you are talking about, I wouldn’t worry about it. Clean it well afterwards and you’ll be fine.

 

[formernuke]

My 20ft bottle has a green face and green hose because that's how it came back to me after it's first service. I pay zero attention to color and just do a proper gas switch. My green reg's been on stage bottles before. In reality, having the green reg/hose on a stage bottle actually made me feel uncomfortable because it felt wrong.(had a bad first stage and it was easier to grab an extra deco reg). I'd prefer no colors or markings.

That is completely reasonable and I would have hand-delivered the Deep 6 regs to the instructor to inspect, in fact I would love for that to happen. But it was a hard "no" without any options. Also, I think air2 devices are ridiculous

I found out who the instructor is for the PADI shop, he seems well liked, but haven't spoken to him yet. I'll try to make that happen this week.

To use you as an example.

You say I want to take a class with you and I already have all my own gear I would say great. I'm an independent instructor and I have access to a pool so I can probably save you money since we don't have to use one of my shops pools or rental gear.

I tell you I need verification that the gear is in good working order.

You send me receipts showing its all brand new. When we meet I match the receipts with the gear and look it over to insure it does look new if everything matches we are good.

Now if you show me a deep6 receipt and a scubapro reg, there is a problem.

 

[Bob DBF]

Exactly. Don't pay to rent the shop equipment for an OW course. I suppose you could say that the rental cost for most shops is included in the cost of the course. Doesn't make business sense to me to charge extra for the stuff, but that's just me. Seems like nickel & diming the customer.

It could be a business ploy to reduce the price of a class when advertising, making it seem lower, and making it up by requiring the rental. The total could be the same, or higher, but the profit hinges on everyone renting. A good reason for a new diver to research their options carefully.

 

[pasley]

I appreciate the candid reply, but you made a few wrong assumptions. I'll reply with your numbering:

1. This is an interesting point and would be a reason to use the rented gear for the pool session. However, it's the first I'm hearing of this, and am I not correct in assuming that people train in pools to practice drills and whatnot before they practice them in the open water?
2. The only thing I have purchased so far is a mask, snorkel and booties, and I got all those from the LDS (the PADI one, because they had a better selection). I was planning to buy everything except for the BP/W and regs from the SSI LDS, UNLESS they were going to seriously upcharge me on a Shearwater computer. So, for example, all exposure stuff would be bought from the LDS.
3. The gear is included in the price of the course for the pool session only. To then do the open water portion they want $275 for the same gear, THAT is where I have a problem with this since that's $275 I can put towards my own gear, the stuff I actually want to learn with.
4. Exactly
6. You haven't heard of Deep 6 or of DGX? I thought both were pretty well known and respected on this board.

Lastly, I understand the reason for wanting the LDS to stay in business, same reason I want my LGS to stay in business. But in my opinion, a good LDS like a good LGS will stay in business by offering fair prices, good service, and a customer-focused attitude. I have no problem being a repeat customer and paying a reasonable upcharge locally to make sure they're around to fill my bottles for the next few decades. But I expect honesty and customer focus in return.

1. My choice not to take the personal scuba gear I use into the ocean is just that, a personal choice. Chlorine bleaches out the color and downright eats away at the material of the BCD and other parts of the gear. Yes, you train with your gear in the pool and then go to the ocean. As I teach I am in the pool more and so I have a separate of older gear for the pool and my ocean gear is a separate set if I can possibly do it.
2. Your original post gave me the incorrect impression you had purchased more than your personal gear which you have to have to take the course.
3. Hmm, every business makes its own decisions. Locally here, often the rental is for the duration of the course including the pool and open water. Ocean dives are equipment is often rented for $75 per day. So that does see high by Los Angeles standards, but in other areas without the volume of LA, that may be par for the course.
6. I see the manager and he has a good pedigree. I just haven't heard of them before. But like I said, there are many companies I haven't hear of before.

 

[formernuke]

My choice not to take the personal scuba gear I use into the ocean is just that, a personal choice. Chlorine bleaches out the color and downright eats away at the material of the BCD and other parts of the gear. Yes, you train with your gear in the pool and then go to the ocean. As I teach I am in the pool more and so I have a separate of older gear for the pool and my ocean gear is a separate set if I can possibly do it.

Yup, no way I'm bringing my custom halycon wing into teaching. Dedicated teaching stuff with the amount of pool time it sees.

 

[M-Cameron]

2. With no scuba certification a business in the USA sold you scuba gear. Interesting. No further comment. on this.

i have never once been asked for a certification for ANY gear ive bought.

hell, you dont need a certification to dive....legally its not a requirement anywhere in the US....i can buy all my gear online, buy a compressor, and go diving never taking a class, never stepping foot in a dive shop.

what shops have you been to that makes you show certs?