My own equipment not allowed for Open Water class?

[wetb4igetinthewater]

@Horgh

How far are you willing to drive for your class? That may help a bit. There are several factors in the equation and convenience is one of them.

 

[M-Cameron]

the other thing you need to remember, the shop has no idea when your equipment was last serviced or how well its been maintained...

as a OW student, you are under the care of the instructor....if someone shows up with a reg they found in their uncles basement 12 years ago, and never had it serviced....and that reg has an issue resulting in a student getting hurt...you cant blame the student for that, they dont know any better...thats on the Instructor.

at least with shop gear, they know the service history, and they know the gear is functional.



once you are certified, your safety is in your own hands, and you are responsible for knowing your equipment and keeping it in good order.

 

[Horgh]

@Horgh

How far are you willing to drive for your class? That may help a bit. There are several factors in the equation and convenience is one of them.

Right, that's certainly a factor, but both of these shops are within a 45 minute drive of me (closest available). There is a shop in Atlanta that I wish I could go to, but that's a 4 hour drive and I have commitments at home that prevent such a multi-day excursion right now.

the other thing you need to remember, the shop has no idea when your equipment was last serviced or how well its been maintained...

as a OW student, you are under the care of the instructor....if someone shows up with a reg they found in their uncles basement 12 years ago, and never had it serviced....and that reg has an issue resulting in a student getting hurt...you cant blame the student for that, they dont know any better...thats on the Instructor.

at least with shop gear, they know the service history, and they know the gear is functional.



once you are certified, your safety is in your own hands, and you are responsible for knowing your equipment and keeping it in good order.

You're of course right and I get that, but at the same time I was trying to tell them I'd be buying brand new regulators from a reputable company, even if it is a smaller and newer company. I personally like boutique brands, but I know a shop can't know about every single small company out there. Still, for the money AND the commitment of a long-term education relationship, I was hoping they'd be willing to work with me on this.

Anyway, I'll do the try SCUBA and get to meet the main instructor, I'll then try to meet the instructor from the PADI shop and I'll see which one I click with more. I do appreciate all of y'all's feedback.

 

[BoltSnap]

I've been using internet forums since the 90s, I understand how they work. I'm simply trying to prevent derailing of this thread as I'd like to focus on the BYO equipment aspect of my original question. I simply stated the above as to why I currently have a preference for one shop over the other, even if it's misguided (which it sounds like it may be). But I hear what you're saying. People's emotions run high these days, and I mean no disrespect to anyone.

Go with your gut feeling, everyone has their friend, cousin, brother, sister, great grand uncle or their neighbor ten houses down the street who are dive instructors and will push for you to take the course with them. The SSI shop seems to be focused and know what they are doing.

 

[Esprise Me]

I wouldn't stress too much about the bad stuff you've heard about PADI. IMO, they get the most flak because they're the biggest. Remember a couple decades ago when there were all those books and documentaries about how bad McDonald's is? It wasn't because Burger King, Wendy's, et al were better. It's good to be realistic about the limits of any agency or instructor you go with, and keep your critical thinking hat on.

That said, if you're set on long hose and BP/W, have you looked into GUE?

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

If the regs are brand new and you can show proof of sale of brand new regs, what's the issue? The liability falls on the manufacturer in that case. If you bought used, you MUST get them serviced (covering all bases here). Then the liability of reg failure falls on whoever serviced them.

I would ask which instructor teaches the ENTIRE course (pool sessions included) neutrally buoyant and trimmed. I cannot emphasize enough that proper weighting includes weight distribution (so you are effortlessly horizontal like a fish instead of vertical like a sea horse). These blog posts may help you:

Teaching Neutrally Buoyant and Trimmed - International Training - SDI | TDI | ERDI | PFI

Teaching Neutrally Buoyant and Trimmed: Pt2 - Mask, Snorkel & Fin Skills - International Training - SDI | TDI | ERDI | PFI

Teaching Neutrally Buoyant and Trimmed: How to weight properly, Part 3 - International Training - SDI | TDI | ERDI | PFI

 

[Gandalf-the-Diver]

Hey all,

A while ago I found the Dive Talk channel and really became interested in diving (I realize people have split opinions on that channel, we don't need to discuss that here). I'm a Type A personality who soaks up knowledge on subjects he finds interesting, so I have been learning and researching a TON on various dive topics, from the science, to equipment, to procedures, etc. I have a pretty decent high-level understanding of a lot of topics now, which you could argue is good or bad, seeing how I've had no formal training yet.

So on that note, there are two shops in my area, one a PADI shop, and one SSI. I checked out both and signed up for a "try SCUBA" class with the SSI shop. However, the SSI shop then told me that for the Open Water class I have to use their equipment, either rented or bought from them. Their reason was "liability and insurance", though they did say that beyond the Open Water class I can use my own equipment. The PADI shop does not have a rule like that.

I'm a bit torn. I know that if I like the "try SCUBA" I'm going to take many classes, dive a ton, with the eventual goal being tech diving and overhead environments. I also believe in the "buy once, cry once" principle, as well as not having to re-learn stuff (muscle memory). As such, I wanted to purchase a Deep 6 "signature" DIR (long hose) regulator bundle right away, along with their Eddy fins, and start with a BP/W setup, likely the DGX package as it seems to fit my needs (Dive Rite XT package being my second choice). However, I wouldn't be able to take the Open Water class with those through this SSI shop, and I'd have to use a rented vest BCD and standard hose Aqualung regulator and octo.

From what I've read and heard, SSI would be the preferred agency to do my training as PADI has some issues (I don't want to start a flame war in this thread). So what do you experience divers think? Am I overthinking this? Would you buy your own equipment and go PADI, or go SSI with rented equipment for the first class, and then buy your own?

I don't know if the liability and insurance explanation is real or if it's a gimmick to lock me into products the shop carries, but if the latter, I question the ethics and values of said shop. I realize everyone needs to make money, but I was already willing to buy various big ticket items from them that they do carry (Shearwater computer, Henderson wetsuit(s), etc.) AND spend money on lots of training in the future. Let me know your thoughts, thanks!

I too, wanted to use my own gear, for my OW. I pretty much purchased everything I needed / wanted, to dive, before my OW even started, that includes a drysuit. I too also subscribe to the, buy once, cry once theory. I dealt with a PADI shop, who would've provided all the gear I needed. The only piece of gear that I had purchased, that they did not let me use during my OW, was a 13cu pony. A shop telling you that you must use their gear, or gear you buy from them, for OW, is quite frankly, BS. Since you are looking at a BP/W setup, maybe look to see if GUE has instructors in your area. They also have an OW equivalent, and BP/W is their thing. (I don't drink the Kool-Aid but I count a number of GUE divers, as dive buddies)
Have fun on your quest to dive


Any life saving gear that you buy, "used", must be serviced by a proper tech, before you use it. Even gear purported to be new, or hardly used.

 

[M-Cameron]

You're of course right and I get that, but at the same time I was trying to tell them I'd be buying brand new regulators from a reputable company, even if it is a smaller and newer company. I personally like boutique brands, but I know a shop can't know about every single small company out there. Still, for the money AND the commitment of a long-term education relationship, I was hoping they'd be willing to work with me on this.

i get it man....but:

1) students lie...about everything.

it really wouldnt be far fetched to have a student claim to you they are buying brand new...but then go on ebay and buy some 20 year old relic.

or the student couldve been sold something they thought was new...when in reality the seller duped them...


2) just because its new manufacture doesnt mean its working properly, or even properly made.

theres nothing stopping some bubba with no knowledge of scuba from slapping together some plumbing parts in his basement, calling himself "super pro regulator company"...and selling his cobbled together regs online...

so even if you are buying new....it doesnt mean the company is legit...

or someone couldve bought a brand new Aqualung reg....gotten it home, taken it apart, and put it back together incorrectly.




essentially, its a lot of risk, with really very little reward for the instructor.....and by having a "zero tolerance" policy, it removes the burden of judgement off the instructor, who, at the end of the day, is liable if you get hurt.


it also could be 100% out of the instructors hands....it could very well be a stipulation from his liability insurance carrier to not let students use their own get during OW cert.

 

[Gandalf-the-Diver]

since I've read some less-than-favorable things about PADI as an organization.

... all that aside, your actual instructor, and their standards and abilities, transcends agency. There are good instructors in all agencies. Some bad ones too, sadly.

 

[BoundForElsewhere]

I hear what you guys are saying, the owner and his co-instructor said that they're not familiar with Deep 6, which I suppose is fair, but a little research would make it clear that it's not garbage. The reason I wanted to start with a BP/W is because I like the simplicity, modularity, and buoyancy characteristics that you all have discussed here in hundreds of threads. Of course I don't know what I don't know, but I figure there is a good reason tech divers don't dive in vest BCs.

I appreciate all of the honest feedback so far, thank you!

So, you drank the kool-aid and it was good.

Move Less.