My first dive incident (long)
- Thread starter Wijbrandus
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This thread has been a really useful lesion in how things can go south from an accumulation of smaller problems. This was all on the surface. Panic indeed is the mind killer.
I want to address a subtext to this thread, which is that the certifying instructor and or the certification process (standards) was contributory to the difficulties that these divers faced.
Divers are certified to dive under conditions similar to those under which they were trained. In moving to new dive environments a local orientation is strongly recommended. Now this dive in cold, dark water is not a beginner dive. Diving is these conditions is challenging and requires greater skills and more careful attention to the equipment used than does a tropical reef dive. These divers trusted the ldc to provide them with exposure protection and bcs that fit according to the statements of the divers involved this did not happen. These divers in my opinion were also grossly overweighed. These divers simply did not have the experience to assess the impact that these circumstances would have on the dive. That is the dive was too challenging for them and well beyond their training. A basic O/W certification in general does not equip divers for these low viz conditions. Panic when it occurs can hit experienced divers as well as new divers and is not necessarily a commentary on the training these divers received.
In the PADI system the adventures in diving program (A/OW) is designed to broaden divers awareness of dive environments such as night, deep, wreck and to give them a taste of the effect of task loading on diving, navigation, search and recovery, fish identification, dpvs and so fourth. The premise is that it is better to have a diver introduced to new environments and to tasking underwater by an instructor than to have the diver learn thru trial and error.
Ultimately certified divers are responsible for themselves, as the reporting divers in this thread have recognized. Divers can have bad days diving and on occasion it can be attributable to poor instruction. This incident is not one of these occasions.
I want to address a subtext to this thread, which is that the certifying instructor and or the certification process (standards) was contributory to the difficulties that these divers faced.
Divers are certified to dive under conditions similar to those under which they were trained. In moving to new dive environments a local orientation is strongly recommended. Now this dive in cold, dark water is not a beginner dive. Diving is these conditions is challenging and requires greater skills and more careful attention to the equipment used than does a tropical reef dive. These divers trusted the ldc to provide them with exposure protection and bcs that fit according to the statements of the divers involved this did not happen. These divers in my opinion were also grossly overweighed. These divers simply did not have the experience to assess the impact that these circumstances would have on the dive. That is the dive was too challenging for them and well beyond their training. A basic O/W certification in general does not equip divers for these low viz conditions. Panic when it occurs can hit experienced divers as well as new divers and is not necessarily a commentary on the training these divers received.
In the PADI system the adventures in diving program (A/OW) is designed to broaden divers awareness of dive environments such as night, deep, wreck and to give them a taste of the effect of task loading on diving, navigation, search and recovery, fish identification, dpvs and so fourth. The premise is that it is better to have a diver introduced to new environments and to tasking underwater by an instructor than to have the diver learn thru trial and error.
Ultimately certified divers are responsible for themselves, as the reporting divers in this thread have recognized. Divers can have bad days diving and on occasion it can be attributable to poor instruction. This incident is not one of these occasions.
I spent most of my first summer after my OW certification ( and later AOW and Rescue) diving under identical conditions as those described here. This incident happened (I'm pretty sure) at Aurora Reservoir just east of Denver. Many of my first 20 or so dives were at the Kingfisher Pond gravel pit southwest of the city, but the conditions are very similar. I dove with some experienced divers on many of those earlier dives, and that made a huge difference. I also took my rescue class there that summer, and that added to my comfort level in those conditions immensely.
By August the visibility around here is usually so bad (because of algae and silt) that diving is no longer fun... you just do it out of desperation to blow some bubbles. Saying that the vis is 5 ft might be an exaggeration. For a group of beginning divers, that alone is enough to be a problem. You can actually lose your sense of up and down in as little as 15 feet of water. It's almost like a twilight/night dive, only a good light won't even cut that soup. With everything else that was going wrong, it could have been downright tragic had they actually gotten to the point of descending, because keeping track of even one buddy is a difficult task. I've lead student tours in those conditions, and we always had either 2 DM's or 1 instructor and 1 DM per buddy team, and then maintained physical contact throughout the dive. Being alone in that murk can be very unsettling, even for an experienced diver, and relocating your buddy once you are separated is virtually impossible.
I think Robert did a remarkable job for an AOW certified diver, and a relatively inexperienced one at that. I have known very few divers at that level who could have handled that situation as well as he did. Getting them bouyant was the exact right thing to do. If you read this Robert... have you done the Rescue class yet? I think you are more than ready for it.
By August the visibility around here is usually so bad (because of algae and silt) that diving is no longer fun... you just do it out of desperation to blow some bubbles. Saying that the vis is 5 ft might be an exaggeration. For a group of beginning divers, that alone is enough to be a problem. You can actually lose your sense of up and down in as little as 15 feet of water. It's almost like a twilight/night dive, only a good light won't even cut that soup. With everything else that was going wrong, it could have been downright tragic had they actually gotten to the point of descending, because keeping track of even one buddy is a difficult task. I've lead student tours in those conditions, and we always had either 2 DM's or 1 instructor and 1 DM per buddy team, and then maintained physical contact throughout the dive. Being alone in that murk can be very unsettling, even for an experienced diver, and relocating your buddy once you are separated is virtually impossible.
I think Robert did a remarkable job for an AOW certified diver, and a relatively inexperienced one at that. I have known very few divers at that level who could have handled that situation as well as he did. Getting them bouyant was the exact right thing to do. If you read this Robert... have you done the Rescue class yet? I think you are more than ready for it.
OP
Wijbrandus
Contributor
I have not done a rescue course as yet. I'm actually taking my nitrox certification next week, and I hope to do Rescue this summer. I've been looking for a new instructor that would inspire me with his competence, and they just haven't come out of the woodwork yet. I'm taking the nitrox course from one who could be, but I'm much much more selective about who I will take a course from now than I was a year and a half ago.
I am now up to 30 dives, and much more confident in my abilities. While I have yet to return to the location of this incident, I am looking forward to taking it on this summer. It did indeed happen at Aurora Reservoir, a location often used for OW certification.
I did however have a bit of an edge on my side for this incident. I spent six years as a hazardous materials technician and first responder in a GM assembly plant. The incidents I had to deal with there, from heart attacks, injuries, fires, and chemical emergencies, have really trained me to keep my cool under pressure. Of course, once you are in the water, it's not like all that other experience counts. It just helps you keep your wits about you a little better.
I am now up to 30 dives, and much more confident in my abilities. While I have yet to return to the location of this incident, I am looking forward to taking it on this summer. It did indeed happen at Aurora Reservoir, a location often used for OW certification.
I did however have a bit of an edge on my side for this incident. I spent six years as a hazardous materials technician and first responder in a GM assembly plant. The incidents I had to deal with there, from heart attacks, injuries, fires, and chemical emergencies, have really trained me to keep my cool under pressure. Of course, once you are in the water, it's not like all that other experience counts. It just helps you keep your wits about you a little better.
When you do take your rescue class, I recommend taking it locally. The lousy diving conditions make for a very realistic environment for the scenarios. A good instructor/dive shop will make the exercises as real as possible. I always loved working rescue classes as a DM because we got to work on scripting the scenarios with the instructor, and we had some really good actors on the staff.
If you havent investigated them yet, I would recommend looking at AI Scuba and Travel for the class. Scott Taylor has always demanded the maximum from his staff, and we always ran a great rescue class when I worked there in the early 90s.
If you havent investigated them yet, I would recommend looking at AI Scuba and Travel for the class. Scott Taylor has always demanded the maximum from his staff, and we always ran a great rescue class when I worked there in the early 90s.
< Getting them buoyant was the exact right thing to do.>
Gosh! Do you really think so! How buoyant do you suppose you can get on a surface swim? Can you actually walk on the water? If you are already floating on the surface, how do you do the exact right thing by "Getting them buoyant"? The more of these sycophantic posts I read, the more I realize what a joke this board is, as well as a complete waste of time. Please, get a freaking life already.
Diver_A
Gosh! Do you really think so! How buoyant do you suppose you can get on a surface swim? Can you actually walk on the water? If you are already floating on the surface, how do you do the exact right thing by "Getting them buoyant"? The more of these sycophantic posts I read, the more I realize what a joke this board is, as well as a complete waste of time. Please, get a freaking life already.
Diver_A
Diver_A:
What kind of an assinine post is that? He clearly said that their perception was that they couldn't keep their heads up and breathe. Whether they were actually at such risk is irrelevant... with a panicky diver the point is reduce the anxiety, and dropping the lead would have relieved that downward drag that a heavy weight belt creates, thus eliminating a major causative factor in the situation. Sheesh... would you have just sat back and laughed at their dilemma? Glad I don't have to dive with you...
BTW, I think that someone needs to get their vallium prescription refilled.
A few remarks:
- not ditching weights when appropriate is a contributing factor in over 40% of diving fatalities. something to think about! ( I don't have the numbers on solo diving here, but these will be high, even higher for very inexperienced solo divers in bad equipment and circumstances)
- diver A: build up of CO2 in this situation was probably not caused by bad air, but by bad breathing. tight equipment, bad snorkel training, high exercise level?
- Robert, 3 is the optimum team size in a lot of dives, I prefer this in a lot of my cave dives for example. so don't decide too soon not to dive a three man team again.
- in over 2500 dives I have been uncomfortable on only two: both time in too tight equipment!
- all in all it sounds like you reacted very well, Robert. by the way, do you really speak frysk, or only pretend?
mart
- not ditching weights when appropriate is a contributing factor in over 40% of diving fatalities. something to think about! ( I don't have the numbers on solo diving here, but these will be high, even higher for very inexperienced solo divers in bad equipment and circumstances)
- diver A: build up of CO2 in this situation was probably not caused by bad air, but by bad breathing. tight equipment, bad snorkel training, high exercise level?
- Robert, 3 is the optimum team size in a lot of dives, I prefer this in a lot of my cave dives for example. so don't decide too soon not to dive a three man team again.
- in over 2500 dives I have been uncomfortable on only two: both time in too tight equipment!
- all in all it sounds like you reacted very well, Robert. by the way, do you really speak frysk, or only pretend?
mart
lamont
Contributor
I came across a similar issue at a dive site here (posted on PNW orca bait section) where a guy was a the surface and complained of not being able to breathe. In retrospect I think the first thing to assume is that they're wearing a jacket BC which is too tight and which is too inflated and which is constricting their breathing. The weight belt might also be constricting their breathing, so dropping it may help, and it may help inspire them with enough confidence that they aren't going to sink that they won't turn you into a casualty if you try to adjust their BC. Plus if they've dropped their weightbelt, they're probably less likely to think you're crazy if you tell them to deflate their BC so they can breathe...
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