My Bonne Terre Experience

[Kevin Carlisle]

But they did respond. Personally, I think that their understated response was in their best interest.

• They didn't flame either of the posters in their response. They seem to be taking their lumps without much grumbling.
• They did indicate that they had a private discussion with one of them and that they initiated that discussion.
• This indicates to me that they are at least trying to conduct business in an ethical manner which is consistent with my experiences with them.
• Are they perfect? Absolutely not.
• Is the diving there unsafe? Not in my opinion. But then, I like diving in dark and murky places and very little freaks me out.

Do I think that Jeni is wrong? Nope. She gave us her impression of the dive. I gave a different impression based on my experiences. Could Bonne Terre do better? Obviously, and I think giving their guides and safety divers colorful hoods/hats would be a smart move for them. Heck, they could even use a yellow miner's (construction) hat with LEDs on them to give it a campy yet distinct effect.

Pete I agree with this post except that the guy was way out of line in the call. I applaud the call, but not the conversation. If it wasnt for this employee I would say good job Bonne terre.

This just goes to show how critical adequate dive briefing are. I think this would not be happening if they did that right.

Pete I owe you an apology for the money comment, that wasnt fair and I have seen you do just the oppsite.

 

[The Chairman]

So you are ok with someone calling your customer and telling them your lack of experience is whats wrong, that it wasnt us?

I certainly wasn't there when the call happened. I do believe that anyone who has a PUBLIC post about them is entitled to call and find out what the issue is.

Lack of a proper dive briefing is also a concern and i dont have to dive the place to know that.

Well Kevin, I have asked for a copy of the video that they show everyone. My memory seems to indicate that the conditions are well documented, but it's been almost a year since I was there.

I do agree with you on cave diving there. Being a mine I would want to know all the man made hazards there first.

Kevin, all of the hazards down there are man made. The real problem is that getting to the surface is only half of the problem. Then you have to find the exit as the lake is a maze. Then there is the problem with the super visibility and the way the light distorts everything. There is no cave class that covers these conditions.

We can argue the overhead part all day, I stand by what every agency teaches on that subject. They should have been told they would be going through a swim through.

Like I said, if swimming under the boat is your idea of an overhead environ, then don't do it.

 

[SoccerJeni]

Hum...part of the reason I considered walking away is I didn't want things to get ugly. BT, Ittyninja and myself are truly the only ones who know exactly what happened that day. It is hard to know exactly what happened unless you were there on each dive, but I did try to explain it as best I could and as objectively as I could. And unfortunately the gentleman who called me from the mine was only on our 3rd dive of the day, so even he didn't have all the facts straight for dives 1 and 2. Which is one reason we got into an arguement when he tried to tell me someone from our dive group escorted Ittyninja back to the doc when she accidentally surface (a buoyancy issue, and no one from our dive group knew where she was.) It was bad enough of a disagreement that I ended up saying "SIR, please do not do that to me!!!" and contemplated hanging up on him. I'm actually not a big confrontational person. However, I do like to get things worked out and resolved. And I truly do care about safety, learning and making things better where they could be.

Net Doc, I truly truly am glad that you like it. And my review was not at all to persuade people to dislike it. And there is no one out there in the world that wanted me to like BT more than me. I hate that I live in the no man's land of diving!!! I hate that so much! I really wanted a nice place that was close that I could dive in the winter time, without having to take a plane ride.

I do, just like you, hope that the intention of the phone call was to talk over the problems and figure out solutions to it. However, it didn't feel like that for the majority of the call. Which is highly unfortunate. You know me Net Doc (though I know not very well), but you know I'm new and I come to SB to learn and I post help other new divers learn. I typically post about each dive I do, and talk about all of it, including what I did wrong. Heck I even posted how horrible I was on my first lake dive.

I definitely was overloaded in this dive, worrying about myself and my friend. That absolutely affected my day and if it ever looked like I was trying to say the mine was 100% at fault for my stressful day that was not at all my intentions. I have however dove with Ittyninja before in a different enviornment and was still worried about her which did affect my dive, but it just never got like this. It was a very emotional day, and it really shook me that she was lost in the moment that was so critical and we knew she could panic. That was probably my worst diving moment ever, not knowing where she was. I mean, we did have a dive plan about this spot, and it failed. And I lost her. And BT lost her. It was one of those unfortunate things that thankfully everything ended up being okay. I don't blame BT fully for this...she and I buddied up, so it was partially my issue.

But, I really tried to offer things that could be done by BT to make the next person's experience better. I agree the miner hat or anything that would help the guides & safeties stand out would be great. I think the guide does stand out a bit because he has a light (and no one else does on Trail 1 at least), but when you're staying to the back, sometimes you don't see the guide and it would be great to know who the safety was.

The phone call was upsetting, absolutely, and when I asked the gentleman if he would like to hear more about what happened on the day, he said, no I already read your review. I was so surprised by that, and asked well then I'm confused by the purpose of this phone call then? So, in summary, yep, I had a really bad day. There were many reasons involved in that, that I felt like I tried to be as open as possible about that. BT is not 100% responsible for the stress I felt that day. And at one point in the call the guy with BT did say a few things they did wrong, after I asked him, then what mistakes did you guys make?

To be clear on one more thing, CD, I wasn't asked to take it down. I was just really upset and didn't understand how it looked so harsh. I thought I was just giving an objective account of the day and wanted to see from someone's eyes that I hadn't talked to after the dive.

*edit*
One more thing...I still feel the same way I did before, and the phone call made it worse. So, I'll be catching a plane to dive in the winter. Hopefully this helps clear things up.

 

[The Chairman]

I hate that I live in the no man's land of diving!!! I hate that so much!

It would probably be considered tacky and low brow to point out that I just moved to Key Largo, so I won't. Mselenaous and I look forward to you coming down to dive with us at some point.

Also, thanks for your clarification. No one has asked me to remove anything either. It's my impression that overall, they are good folk trying to provide a great diving experience.

 

[SoccerJeni]

It would probably be considered tacky and low brow to point out that I just moved to Key Largo, so I won't. Mselenaous and I look forward to you coming down to dive with us at some point.

Also, thanks for your clarification. No one has asked me to remove anything either. It's my impression that overall, they are good folk trying to provide a great diving experience.

You meanie!!!!! I'm going to take you guys up on that one day!!!

 

[616fun]

I have been approached about diving Bonne Terre several times and have refused every invite for the following reasons:

Cost - the price of admission is outrageous to me. I view the mine as a large underwater quarry. Maybe my mindset is wrong, but that's my view. I can do a long weekend on great shipwrecks in NC compared to a small town quarry in a mine for a similar cost, and do more dives!

Cattle drive mentality - I have always hated being babysat on a dive. Again it's personal preference here. When I find out a guide is required for a dive I skip it. If I find out they are doing air checks in the water I skip it. If I find a DM messing with my valves I don't like it. My gas plan is mine (and my buddies) to own. I Understand this is done due to the common clientele. I have no qualms with Bonne Terre managing their facility this way. It's just one of my reasons to not want to dive it.

General client - I'm not bashing anyone. Every one of us were new divers at some point. I truly enjoy helping the new guys out at a quarry and doing fun dives with them. However, when I'm going to spend $500 on a weekend of diving, I really don't want a new guy (or any guy for that matter) kicking me in the face the entire dive. At least on charters there is room to get away from that. At Bonne Terre I get the impression there is not due to the management of the guided groups.

This has been my reasons for not joining groups to dive Bonne Terre. I'm probably the minority.

I do find Pete's comment about cave divers not being trained to dive in such open spaces hysterical. I understand the point he trying to make, but you have to admit, it's a total oxymoron!

 

[Jim Lapenta]

You meanie!!!!! I'm going to take you guys up on that one day!!!

Yeah, but if we get there first you sleep on the deck!

 

[SoccerJeni]

Yeah, but if we get there first you sleep on the deck!

When are you going? Whenever you're going, I'm going the day before

 

[mselenaous]

I’ve been trying to get in a comment in all day, but just got very busy.

1-Thank you Jenni for sharing your very candid experiences. I enjoyed reading your report as not everyday of diving is promo-poster perfect.

2-I commend Bonne Terre’s public acknowledgement and offer to try to make it right with you the next time. That’s the best any dive op can do.


3. This is a learning experience for everyone involved.

• Not every dive environment is going to be considered fun for everyone.
• Expectations and fun (or lack of/not meeting) are tied hand-in-hand with preconceived notions vs. reality as well as accurate pre-briefing & planning.

4. As mentioned above, I have thumbed dives. These were in environments that I was not only unfamiliar with, but the guide/buddy made assumptions.

• That with my level of training and experience, I would be more comfortable in certain “unfamiliar-to-me” settings.
• Dive briefing of new sites that were not so thorough that I knew what to expect.
• That I was comfortable task loading in new environments with new &/or infrequently used gear.
• And assumptions I made about my buddy’s knowledge of me.

I thumbed dives because I got the heebie-jeebies.

• One dive was in dark very cold waters, and my first dive with this buddy/guide. He failed to tell me about water conditions. He did not know about a previous bad experience I had diving in sulfur water.
• One dive was at a site that although well & often mapped, I was not shown a map but was told to just follow the lines (which I did with a mental death grip). I was following in deep dark low viz area and refused to swim into what I thought was a tunnel, was only a ledge. I am not comfortable in enclosed spaces. I can get through a tunnel, if I know in advance that is it x,y or z in length as I count down my fin kicks out.
• One dive where I had a fair idea of the length of the tunnel but half way turned because I was task loading in new gear configurations.

Lessons to reiterate:

• It’s OK to call a dive anytime, anywhere, for any reason or no reason.
• Not every dive site is for right for every diver…and that can be different on any given day depending on gear, dive buddy, additional training, and lessoned learned from previous experiences, such as this one.

For BT, maybe instead of bigger groups of less experienced divers more guides & safeties are called for in smaller groups. Especially knowing that folks with very few dives may have additional anxieties. It seems that the more experienced/trained divers get more personal attention. Seems kind of backwards to the needs of the divers. IJS.

I am looking forward to diving BT one day, but thanks to reports like yours, I will be better prepared for the reality.

Jeni, I recommend you take the classes you are planning to take and get even more comfortable in familiar environments. And then, take BT up on their offer for more personal attention from guides on the dives. You will probably have a totally different experience.

Don’t ever hesitate to speak up before, during, and after any dive so that you and future divers at that site can learn from your experiences. We were all new once-upon-a-time. That feeling doesn’t and shouldn’t go away as we tackle new challenges. Regardless of the outcomes, we learn from challenging ourselves and sharing that with others.

 

[mselenaous]

Yeah, but if we get there first you sleep on the deck!

When are you going? Whenever you're going, I'm going the day before

The futon awaits if you want to share :shocked2:, otherwise bring a sleeping bag and be prepared to share with the cats.