Municipal Divers? Not here....

[Sas]

Sometimes they do. Many other times, one winds up with brain damage and spends the rest of his/her life as a useless pile of flesh, incapable of living life as they have always known it, while being a financial and emotional burden on their loved ones. That's not a risk that I would like to take - hence the medic alert necklace I wear.

Fair enough. I've heard of people not wanting to be on life support once they are brain dead, but never someone who didn't want any attempt made to save their life so I was interested.

 

[DOkie]

I understand the concept of preserving evidence. This gentleman was in 14 feet of water and once you knew where to look, you could see him from the surface! This isn't a matter of preserving evidence, this is a matter of divers not wanting to dive in really crappy conditions because it wasn't someone important enough! There I said it. No more beating around the bush!

 

[DOkie]

If preserving evidence was the primary goal. Over two weeks in the water ruled that out!!!

 

[k ellis]

Dokie I really cant speak for the agency that you dealt with all I can do is just say in general my explanation would be the normal. There are some cold hearted people in this world who are self righteous and dont care if other peoples bodies are found and this is obvious but the fact is they have a set guideline they have to follow. I am not saying this particular agency followed them or not and one thing I was taught is never to make a decision but just state facts.

I can say though on a serious note though on behalf of the family though your efforts were priceless and no amount of money could ever repay you for what you trully gave the family. Allthough I am not a member of that family I extend my gratitude to you on their behalf and thank you for giving them the gift of closure.

Dont worry about the news papers and reporters etc. I have handled many bodies and dealt with Drunk drivers who have performed the unimagineable and never once been on the news. Its not the glory that counts though only the self gradification from knowing one made a diffrence

 

[Mark Michaud SELAUSAR]

I really don't follow this example at all......but OK.

But I know this - if I take a header off a bridge and into the water below - as far as I am concerned, people are welcome to leave my body to the fishes.

Sometimes diving is about what is not really there. It is used to eliminate where someone is not. If someone is reported drowned I have a professional obligation to see if that is the case. That "story" may have been used to cover an abduction, or homicide, thinking law enforcement may not look due to dirty or cold water. It is a search the same as using a K-9, or with a warrant on a house, etc. If I don't locate something, then I know where it isn't and can look at other options.

We had a murder case about 8 years ago. A guy said he beat another to death with a hammer because the guy pulled a gun. He said he threw it in a local waterway and even showed us where. We, pretty much, knew there was no gun but dove for a whole day to elmininate the "doubt" that it could have been there when it went to trial. If a defense attorney would have asked, why didn't you just look, the jury would also wonder as this was a "life in prison" trial. Life is not at all black and white............it is very grey. What ought to be and what is are two different things. What each of us do affects people that are not directly involved such as family.

 

[NudeDiver]

Fair enough. I've heard of people not wanting to be on life support once they are brain dead, but never someone who didn't want any attempt made to save their life so I was interested.

The way I see it, if it is my time to go, then it's my time to go. Better to go, then to fight it and risk being permanently disabled and just WISH I were dead.

 

[bridgediver]

Sometimes diving is about what is not really there. It is used to eliminate where someone is not. If someone is reported drowned I have a professional obligation to see if that is the case. That "story" may have been used to cover an abduction, or homicide, thinking law enforcement may not look due to dirty or cold water. It is a search the same as using a K-9, or with a warrant on a house, etc. If I don't locate something, then I know where it isn't and can look at other options.

We had a murder case about 8 years ago. A guy said he beat another to death with a hammer because the guy pulled a gun. He said he threw it in a local waterway and even showed us where. We, pretty much, knew there was no gun but dove for a whole day to elmininate the "doubt" that it could have been there when it went to trial. If a defense attorney would have asked, why didn't you just look, the jury would also wonder as this was a "life in prison" trial. Life is not at all black and white............it is very grey. What ought to be and what is are two different things. What each of us do affects people that are not directly involved such as family.

Nicely put!


Nudediver - you've mentioned the same feelings in other threads on here and you're certainly entitled to your opinion. Fortunately most people seem to put a higher value on their lives and even if they do not (ie sucide) their loved ones deserve some answers whether the person commiting suicide wants them known or not.
The only way we can guarantee finding manner of death is by examining the body and the scene - including u/w. We leave to many asumptions on the table if we forget about the body and scene. family and insurance (huge deal) need to determine if it was an accident or suicide AND if a homicide don't you think society as a whole needs to find the perpetrator in case they want to do it again?

To put it another way - something in the water is pobably the easiest way to cover or complicate a crime. There are some staggering numbers that indicate if u/w crime scenes were properly processed there would be far less drownings determined as "accidental" and may in fact be unsolved homicides.
You can't get answers if you don't investigate properly

 

[bridgediver]

DOokie

I don't know what to tell you. From what you're saying it sounds like a terrible thing to be wound up in. I'm glad it worked out for you and your friends and nobody got hurt.
Try the olive branch approach with the sherrifs to see if you can make things better (if you want). It sounds like they may not be the team the say they are (or you think they are) - it doesn't mean they're bad guys they just don't know how to get there

 

[grumpie]

We dont do anything for the victum, but we do offer the family a ending and relief. then we wait for the next time the pager goes off.

 

[bridgediver]

Next water is not a good crime scene preserver! Dilution, currents, and a host of contaminants are major problems! So, unless there is a rope around the neck or some similar cause and effect evidence it is useless to draw a chalk outline or post tape around the area! Sorry, just the facts, but even the act of removing the body from water destroys evidence! You can take a picture if the rope is there , but lets face it, it is all disturbed the minute it hits the water.....! !

Not necessarily. Sorting out a scene u/w is for sure allot more difficult than on land but if you know what to look for and how to look you can get allot of data to help determine what happened.
This is also why its important that the diver is trained to examine and check for certain things when he gets to the body - If a body is found on land in the bushes theres no way it would get dragged through the forest to the side of the road and then examined but thats essentially what allot of dive teams do when they simpily just "bring them up". Allot of the time thats what the cops ask for so both the dive team and the cops need to be on the same page.
Theres some good u/w investigation courses out there that would back up what I mean