Multiple deaths diving off NC coast May 10, 2020?

[scubadada]

My only thought, knowing nothing of either Diver other than married couple, is that one had an emergency and the other was drawn into the emergency and they both died.

Rouse's in 1992? Extreme case, yes.

One thing from any and all rescue and emergency management training has been to never put yourself in a life threatening situation to save someone. But when emotions race and it is the love of your life dying, what are you going to do?

I wonder if they were the last 2 of the divers down, nobody else there? It would seem like an emergent ascent would not take much time or gas, if they had been able.

 

[Steve_C]

I wonder if they were the last 2 of the divers down, nobody else there? It would seem like an emergent ascent would not take much time or gas if they had been able.

The time that I dove that boat there was only 5 divers and no crew other than the captain. Do not know if they had no crew that day but at most 4 other divers.

 

[O-ring]

I get the sense from the FB page that the victims were affiliated with a local NC diving club of some kind so they were likely not NC noobs and were probably well versed in the conditions offshore.

 

[letterboy]

I wonder if they were the last 2 of the divers down, nobody else there? It would seem like an emergent ascent would not take much time or gas if they had been able.

SPECULATION! SPECULATION!

THEORETICAL POSTING! THEORETICAL POSTING!

Clouded judgement from being low on air, narced, task overload, 1 divers low on air becomes 2 divers low on air.

depending on where the trouble started. Were they far from the up line and had to swim to it, exerting themselves. breathing the 1st stage, hard.

in an attempt to prevent being lost in the current and drifting off they thought the best chance of survival was to get to the up line and follow it up.

a free ascent in current (I believe I have read up thread that this dive had current) would have been scary and add more challenges, in their minds.

personal thought here is I would have done a free ascent and pop a smb asap.

 

[Sam Miller III]

Rouse's 1992 double drowning would be a good analogy
poorly trained and experienced for the requirements of the dive activity

One experiences difficulty - the partner attempts to assist
Both poorly trained, experienced or equipped

Both create a "Domino Effect" of events

One crisis creates another crisis until survival is impossible for both

I think, ? I believe ? I suppose ?

 

[O-ring]

Will be interesting to see how it plays out. There certainly can be current out there and on the Schurz there isn't much to get behind to get out of it. Like anywhere, there is a lot of pressure to return to the upline (and the embarrassment factor to go along with it if you don't), but people popping up away from the anchorline happens all the time down there. Most don't even bother with a bag - they just pop up wherever. I've seen people ascend the anchorline, get back on the boat, start taking off their gear and talking about how great the dive was and then all of a sudden realizing they are looking at a bunch of unfamiliar faces. Then it dawns on them that they ascended the wrong anchor line and are now on the wrong boat. That surface swim of shame back sucks.

 

[agilis]

It doesn't even have to be that complicated.

I was diving in NC once with a woman who had more dives than I did, but hers were pretty much all warm water, Caribbean dives. She had bragged to me in advance that her SAC was so good that she never got low on gas on dives. Everyone else would get low and have to go up and she would eventually come up last, with her DM.

I put her in a steel 100, but I was using a steel 120.

She ran out of gas during our safety stop on our very first dive. This was back before I even considered going down the DM/Instructor route, so I was not so conscious then of checking my buddy's gas supply.

She had not been even looking at her pressure gauge because she was so used to always having lots of gas left at the end of a dive. She just assumed I would get low and have to surface before her.

I'm not suggesting that is what happened in this case. I'm just saying that someone can go OOA for a lot simpler reasons than "distracted by hunting". It could be as simple as being a little narced and just not paying attention/losing track of time.

In this case, it would be really easy to speculate on how they might have both run out of gas. But, I don't think that's appropriate at this point. Recognizing that the simplest, feasible explanation is that they ran out of gas and leaving it at that until an investigation can gather and assess all the available data seems like the best, most respectful course, to me.

I've noticed that many divers underestimate the greatly increased gas consumption created by the physical activity required while diving in even just a moderate current. Estimating gas consumption based primarily on depth can be very deceiving. Still, not checking your SPG every few minutes is inconceivable to me. I assume that an examination of their cylinders has already determined if a simultaneous OOA was the cause of this tragedy.

 

[letterboy]

Will be interesting to see how it plays out. There certainly can be current out there and on the Schurz there isn't much to get behind to get out of it. Like anywhere, there is a lot of pressure to return to the upline (and the embarrassment factor to go along with it if you don't), but people popping up away from the anchorline happens all the time down there. Most don't even bother with a bag - they just pop up wherever. I've seen people ascend the anchorline, get back on the boat, start taking off their gear and talking about how great the dive was and then all of a sudden realizing they are looking at a bunch of unfamiliar faces. Then it dawns on them that they ascended the wrong anchor line and are now on the wrong boat. That surface swim of shame back sucks.

shame is a powerful thing.

 

[stuartv]

I think it's pretty normal for diving in that area to have divers with a single tank and no pony and to target being back on the boat with 500 psi.

If you are a diver with a pretty good SAC, you might normally use 0.5cu-ft per minute. Most people are higher, I think. But, admittedly, many are lower, too.

From 100 feet, if you make a 30 ft/min ascent (which is way faster than what I see most people doing), that's 3.3 minutes with an average ATA of 2.5. Add 3 minutes at 15 feet for a safety stop. That's a total of 6.5 cu-ft of gas needed. But, that is best conditions, for one diver. If the diver is stressed, breathing could easily double. Sharing with another diver means doubled again. Now you're talking about 26 cu-ft of gas. And that's if you start your ascent immediately. That's 900 psi, in an HP100 tank.

If you have 2 stressed divers sharing air on the bottom (at 100'), both breathing at 1.0 cu-ft/min, that means (1.0 x 2 divers x 4ATA =) 8 cu-ft per min while they are at 100'.

8 cu-ft in a HP100 is 280 psi. 280 Psi Per Minute.

If one diver goes out of air and now 2 divers are sharing an HP100 while they head for the anchor line, a tank with 1000 psi in it would only last them less than 4 minutes. And keep in mind we're now talking about 2 divers trying to swim along the bottom while sharing air (not that they SHOULD, mind you - but, people don't always make the best decisions when they're stressed). Once someone goes OOA, you should be making a direct ascent, if it's remotely feasible. But, people down there get it drilled in that they have to come up the anchor line, so it's not unheard of for people to run out of gas, even though they knew they were low, because they were thinking "I HAVE to get back to the anchor line."

That is, of course, presuming the SAC rates I used as a made-up example. But, I use AI to log my own SAC rate on every dive and I can assure you that 1.0 cu-ft/min for a stressed diver is NOT an excessive estimate. It is not hard at all to exceed that.

 

[W W Meixner]

shame is a powerful thing.

LB...

I have been on the Shurz numerous times with Discovery ...each an every time...the crew went down secured the anchor line...and established at temporary navigation line on the wreck...pretty much right down the center...from the anchor line at the stern...right down to the bow...this was done before divers were allowed in the water...the whole process usually took about 10 minutes...gave everyone a chance to get ready...

There is not much relief on the wreck as it was chain dragged...the highest point on the wreck is the boilers...and from most locations on the wreck...you can still see the temporary navigation line even when you're close to either the port or starboard side...there are lots of funeral earns on the wreck...

The port bow area is popular as it is a Sand Tiger shark feeding area and there are usually lots of sharks teeth in the sand...one trip down I had a handful by the end of the dive...

I won't speculate on this tragedy only to say...I've been on the wreck...free descent from hang line...dead clam...to strong current when you absolutely had to use the anchor line from the hang line to descend/ascend and hang onto the wreck as you crawled along as the current was so strong...the Shurz is close enough to shore that it is effected by tidal surge...I'm looking through my log book as I'm typing...it lies in approx 109' FSW...

W...