Multiple deaths diving off NC coast May 10, 2020?

[Barnaby'sDad]

Umm, yeah.... Those computers already exist. Even my old Oceanic Atom 3.0 did all that (and did it well). You set it for whatever psi you want to hit the surface with and it tracks your depth and your consumption rate over the last 90 seconds and tells you how much Gas Time Remaining you have. If you stay down until GTR hits 0, then ascend at exactly 30ft/min to the surface, continuing to breathe at the same rate the whole way, you will arrive with 500 psi (or whatever Reserve you set) in your tank.

I think my Atom only beeps. No vibrate.

But, my Teric has a very similar feature and it will do beep, vibrate, or both.

What does all of that matter? You’re both (@dfcliff) using your “Jump to Conclusions” mat to assume that someone that does not regularly monitor their gas level via a SPG is going to do so via a computer.

 

[scubadada]

Umm, yeah.... Those computers already exist. Even my old Oceanic Atom 3.0 did all that (and did it well). You set it for whatever psi you want to hit the surface with and it tracks your depth and your consumption rate over the last 90 seconds and tells you how much Gas Time Remaining you have. If you stay down until GTR hits 0, then ascend at exactly 30ft/min to the surface, continuing to breathe at the same rate the whole way, you will arrive with 500 psi (or whatever Reserve you set) in your tank.

I think my Atom only beeps. No vibrate.

But, my Teric has a very similar feature and it will do beep, vibrate, or both.

Oceanic (Pelagic Pressure Systems) air time remaining (ATR) includes your safety stop or deco stops and is quite accurate. I have over 1900 dives on Oceanic computers.

Shearwater gas time remaining (GTR) does not include your safety stop and disappears off the screen for deco. So far, it does not appear to be as accurate as my Oceanic computer, but is fairly close toward the end of the dive. I only have about 200 dives on my Teric.

 

[scubadada]

What does all of that matter? You’re both (@dfcliff) using your “Jump to Conclusions” mat to assume that someone that does not regularly monitor their gas level via a SPG is going to do so via a computer.

If we learned just one thing from this thread, it's monitor your gas. If you happen to have an AI computer, your gas and NDL are simply in one easy place.

 

[dfcliff]

What does all of that matter? You’re both (@dfcliff) using your “Jump to Conclusions” mat to assume that someone that does not regularly monitor their gas level via a SPG is going to do so via a computer.

I wasn't jumping to any conclusion. I was responding to your comment:

What you’re proposing would be a false sense of security to divers, as some would assume that the values fed to the computer for your gas requirements are accurate given the dive profile.

What happens if the diver was more active than their usual dive for that depth and their gas burn rate was higher than normal? Is the computer going to analyze their previous dives, monitor their exiting gas burn rate on the fly, and reach the conclusion for the diver that they in fact have to turn to head up the line and ascend X minutes earlier than expected?

Specifically, the computer can/does monitor the higher consumption rate and alerts to ascend earlier than expected. Also, there is an audible and visible alarm when that condition exists.

 

[Angelo Farina]

Well, I did learn three lessons, not just one:
1) monitor your gas (and NDL)
2) use proper equipment (tank of proper capacity, possibly with J-valve, as my 15-liters one)
3) whenever the planned activity is not just "watching around", add some redundant gas supply (pony tank or manifolded compact twins).
1) Can be easily forgotten under some circumstances, and relying only on your own self-discipline is not "safe enough" for me. Humans are prone to fail...

 

[Barnaby'sDad]

I am in favor of tools that make diving safer and easier. However, a tool (a dive computer...in this case) should be just that...a tool. It should not be used as a crutch to address deficiencies (proper gauge monitoring). Ex. What is someone that is 100% dependent on an AI computer going to do if their computer fails at some point? They aren’t accustomed to monitoring the screen, as they’re dependent on the thing beeping or flashing to let them know something is up.

 

[Basking Ridge Diver]

my Teric has a very similar feature and it will do beep, vibrate, or both

Which I turn off because it is like auto pilot - and next thing you know you fall asleep and rear end a tractor trailer doing 105 mph.

So stay awake and pay attention - stop using crutches...

YMMV...

 

[Rose Robinson]

To All,

One of the best features of a Poseidon second, right side up, upside down makes no difference, excellent/dry breathing, either way.

I have dove all of these wrecks out of Morehead City/Beaufort, some days currents can be tricky.

This is not the area for small singles/tiny spare air bottles.

When I dove here the first time in 2009, my operator of choice thoroughly went through my log, and counted previous open ocean dives.

The first day out, I was under the watchful eye of a DM crew member.

Prior to the commencement of the trip south in 2009, The charter owner gave me a list of ''must have'' items, minimum tank size 100 cu. ft./reel with 150' of line/3m sea sausage/two loud noise making devices (whistles)/line cutter/all my C cards including NITROX certification, and minimum 20 cu. ft. bailout cylinder that was completely redundant.

All my diving on these sites was with doubles/and a slung 40, with Poseidon regs on all tanks, back then I was diving with Cyclon's, I now dive with Jetstreams.

2016 was the last year I dove the Graveyard wrecks, I have no idea what the existing operators are asking for as pre-requisites these days. By the look of this tragedy, not much.

None of these sites are simple OW, at the very least they are Advanced, bordering on basic tec.

The U-352 is almost 4hrs out and 119' down. That alone removes any resemblance to simple OW.

As far as the Schurz, it is prone to strong current on the port side, again, not as far out as the U-352, but not simple OW.

Rose.

 

[stuartv]

What does all of that matter? You’re both (@dfcliff) using your “Jump to Conclusions” mat to assume that someone that does not regularly monitor their gas level via a SPG is going to do so via a computer.

Sorry. I did not jump to any conclusions. You made a statement that implied that certain dive computer features don't exist and would be borderline magic if they did. I related some facts to address the statement that you made. No assumptions made, whatsoever.

I will now venture away from strictly facts. It is great if you never make a mistake while diving. I applaud you. If you never go a little too long between times of checking your SPG, that is awesome. My speculation is that there are lots of other people who are well-trained, experienced, and generally diligent about checking their SPG, who may sometimes (or even just once) get distracted (or narced) at just the wrong time and end up forgetting to check their SPG as often as they should.

That could even be what happened in this particular case.

My theory is that when that happens to a well-trained, experienced, and generally diligent person, an alarm on their dive computer that vibrates or beeps or both may save that person from an unpleasant (though not necessarily injurious or fatal) situation.

If you don't want to use those kinds of alarms, you are certainly free not to. But, I reject the notion or implication that someone who does have that kind of an alarm as a backstop to their own skills as a diver somehow makes them a "bad" diver.

How far would you like to take your rejection of "new and improved" technology? My dad has teased me several times about "needing" to use the crutch of a BCD. He started diving when he was 14 and dived in the Navy (but not as a rated Navy Diver). He always dived double steel 72s, in a 1/4" wetsuit, and likes to point out that he never had a BCD and he never needed one because he was weighted correctly. A BCD is just a crutch for bad weighting and/or poor buoyancy skills.

He never had an SPG, either. That's another crutch (and an unnecessary failure point). He kept one tank turned off until the other tank started to run out. Then he would turn the second tank on, let them equalize, turn it back off, and continue, knowing that he had used half his gas.

Do you reject use of a BCD and an SPG along with your rejection of AI alarms? They are all "crutches" that people have adopted because they feel that those crutches make them safer....

 

[stuartv]

2016 was the last year I dove the Graveyard wrecks, I have no idea what the existing operators are asking for as pre-requisites these days. By the look of this tragedy, not much.

None of these sites are simple OW, at the very least they are Advanced, bordering on basic tec.

The U-352 is almost 4hrs out and 119' down. That alone removes any resemblance to simple OW.

Rose.

From what I have gathered, the two divers in this accident were well-experienced, including experienced in diving the wrecks in that area. I'm not sure why you have asserted that the charter operators are using inadequate prerequisites.

The various boats I have been on when diving the U-352 all get there in around 2 hours or less. But, I guess it is possible that the wrong boat and the wrong conditions could result in taking 4 hours to get there from Morehead City/Beaufort.

The deepest I have ever recorded on the 352 is 116' (and I like to lay on the sand to take pictures, when there happens to be any sharks there), but I suppose if the tide were high there, at that time, you could get 119'. However, most of my dives there show a max of around 111'. Regardless, 130' or less, no physical overhead and no mandatory deco stops is the very definition of recreational sport diving. I agree that the offshore wrecks there should only be dived by advanced open water divers (notice I did not say "Advanced" - capital A - because I don't care about an AOW card, that might only represent 9 total dives). But, they are not technical dives - unless the diver makes it into one.