Multiple deaths diving off NC coast May 10, 2020?

[rjack321]

This misses the point. Even if the wife got the reg into her mouth right side up she would be breathing heavy, 0.7 would be on the extreme low end given her apparent distress. The husband, after watching his wife gag and drown in his face then trying to lift her, 2+ cf/min would be in the ballpark.

Bring bigger tanks for 105ft dives. Your average consumption is not going to be average in an emergency and your buddy's could be even higher. 4 ATAs exacerbates even minor consumption rate increases compared to shallower dives. There is no downside to going up a few tank sizes and having 20cf more leftover, they are still singles even.

 

[scubadada]

This misses the point. Even if the wife got the reg into her mouth right side up she would be breathing heavy, 0.7 would be on the extreme low end given her apparent distress. The husband, after watching his wife gag and drown in his face then trying to lift her, 2+ cf/min would be in the ballpark.

Bring bigger tanks for 105ft dives. Your average consumption is not going to be average in an emergency and your buddy's could be even higher. 4 ATAs exacerbates even minor consumption rate increases compared to shallower dives. There is no downside to going up a few tank sizes and having 20cf more leftover, they are still singles even.

I don't know if this was aimed at my reply or not. The 3 divers I described ended a routine dive with about the same reserve, 30 cu ft, to be used for contingency purposes.

 

[Anthony in NC]

Has there been an accurate statement of what size cylinders the two divers were using? I don't know what they had. Anthony in NC may know, since he knew them personally. But, even assuming they were using 100s, with 30%: the computer is basing NDL on dive time, NOT on gas consumption.

I inspected the cylinders about 8 or 9 months prior to the incident and they had my VIP decal on them. I'd have to go drag last years records out of the file cabinet to be absolute, but I'm 99% sure they were AL 80's.

EDIT: Your question started nagging me so I had to go look.
James and Carla had two Faber LP 2400's and three Worthington HP 3442. Who was using what I wouldn't know. Seems most logical it was probably the HP3442's.

 

[Anthony in NC]

I really hadn't considered the "left side" configuration. I like that idea. But having served in combat, I know how training turns to instinct in a panic, so since my 2nd and 3rd has been on my right side for 16 years, I'm reluctant to change it. I'd like to think I wouldn't panic in a situation and be grabbing for a reg on my right side that had been moved to my left side, but none of us can say unless we've been there.

I tend to watch my gauges, and when I've run it down to 50 PSI or so, I know I'm doing it, so if the reg goes hard it wouldn't be a surprise and I'd like to think I'd respond calmy. But if I did screw up and OOA snuck up on me, I cant say how I'd react. I'd like to think I'd be a cool cucumber and switch over to my pony and come to the surface smiling. But none of us know that to be a fact.

 

[Dan]

I really hadn't considered the "left side" configuration. I like that idea. But having served in combat, I know how training turns to instinct in a panic, so since my 2nd and 3rd has been on my right side for 16 years, I'm reluctant to change it. I'd like to think I wouldn't panic in a situation and be grabbing for a reg on my right side that had been moved to my left side, but none of us can say unless we've been there...

I'm lefty. So, grabbing the Octo and ripping off my left chest D-ring would come easy. My right hand is usually busy with holding on my underwater camera.

Anyway, this weekend I'll be practicing this with my dive buddy. I have never done it in 15 years of diving. So, it's about time to do it. My dive buddy has the normal configuration of both his 2nd stage reg & Octo coming out of the right side of his 1st stage. We'll see the difference.

 

[Angelo Farina]

I'm lefty. So, grabbing the Octo and ripping off my left chest D-ring would come easy. My right hand is usually busy with holding on my underwater camera.

Anyway, this weekend I'll be practicing this with my dive buddy. I have never done it in 15 years of diving. So, it's about time to do it. My dive buddy has the normal configuration of both his 2nd stage reg & Octo coming out of the right side of his 1st stage. We'll see the difference.

If you buddy's secondary routed on the right shoulder has a properly-long hose, it will work OK for you, even if coming "the wrong way" for you, as there will be hose enough for the S-turn.
My experience had been of problems when donating a primary, which in normal rec configuration always has a short hose... Of course, in DIR configuration, the primary has a very long hose, so again there is no problem.
Problems arise when "mixed" configurations are used, or when people is not expecting an unusual configuration.
I see that in a trained group of DIR divers, where everyone is equipped and expects for a primary donate with a very long hose, there are no problems at all (COVID restrictions apart).
Personally I think that there are three safe ways of donating a reg:
1) the DIR way, primary donating with a very long hose, and a necklaced secondary with short hose, but usable only if all the divers are properly equipped and DIR-trained, and if COVID restrictions are removed.
2) the standard PADI way: primary with short hose and possibly necklaced, NEVER to be donated, and a secondary on the right shoulder with a long yellow hose (long enough for being donated properly upside, thanks to an S-curve on the hose); this works both as an AAS for the owner and as a reg to be donated.
3) the method developed by me and my wife in the eighties, requiring a tank with double valve and post, carrying a third complete reg (first and second stage) on the left post, routed on the left shoulder, with a long yellow hose: this reg is designated to be donated only (not to be used by the owner).
I understand that 3) is much less common than the other two, and requires the availability of tanks of proper size (at least 15 liters at 232 bars) and with a double valve and post. These tanks are the standard ones here in Italy, or in tropical resorts with Italian dive centers, but it appears that they are uncommon in other places, making the third approach unfeasible.

 

[chillyinCanada]

This is such a sad situation but as a bare minimum please let us learn something as this subforum intends.

 

[Dan]

If you buddy's secondary routed on the right shoulder has a properly-long hose, it will work OK for you, even if coming "the wrong way" for you, as there will be hose enough for the S-turn.
My experience had been of problems when donating a primary, which in normal rec configuration always has a short hose... Of course, in DIR configuration, the primary has a very long hose, so again there is no problem.
Problems arise when "mixed" configurations are used, or when people is not expecting an unusual configuration.
I see that in a trained group of DIR divers, where everyone is equipped and expects for a primary donate with a very long hose, there are no problems at all (COVID restrictions apart).
Personally I think that there are three safe ways of donating a reg:
1) the DIR way, primary donating with a very long hose, and a necklaced secondary with short hose, but usable only if all the divers are properly equipped and DIR-trained, and if COVID restrictions are removed.
2) the standard PADI way: primary with short hose and possibly necklaced, NEVER to be donated, and a secondary on the right shoulder with a long yellow hose (long enough for being donated properly upside, thanks to an S-curve on the hose); this works both as an AAS for the owner and as a reg to be donated.
3) the method developed by me and my wife in the eighties, requiring a tank with double valve and post, carrying a third complete reg (first and second stage) on the left post, routed on the left shoulder, with a long yellow hose: this reg is designated to be donated only (not to be used by the owner).
I understand that 3) is much less common than the other two, and requires the availability of tanks of proper size (at least 15 liters at 232 bars) and with a double valve and post. These tanks are the standard ones here in Italy, or in tropical resorts with Italian dive centers, but it appears that they are uncommon in other places, making the third approach unfeasible.

Primary donating won’t work for me due to, not only for the short hose, but also for a specially molded mouthbit to fit only to my mouth.

 

[tridacna]

Primary donating won’t work for me due to, not only for the short hose, but also for a specially mold mouthbit to fit only to my mouth.

View attachment 618007

If I needed air and that was the only working reg within reach, It would fit my mouth just fine.

 

[stuartv]

I inspected the cylinders about 8 or 9 months prior to the incident and they had my VIP decal on them. I'd have to go drag last years records out of the file cabinet to be absolute, but I'm 99% sure they were AL 80's.

EDIT: Your question started nagging me so I had to go look.
James and Carla had two Faber LP 2400's and three Worthington HP 3442. Who was using what I wouldn't know. Seems most logical it was probably the HP3442's.

You still didn't say what size the tanks were.