Mulling over BP/W options...

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Freedom Plate and VDH wings. I have an 18# and a 33#. Hands down comfortable. Lots of info on the Freedom plate thread about configuring and webbing.

I'd be curious as to what @Eric Sedletzky has to say. From another thread, I got the impression this is a side business of his, and pretty backed up (which shows strong demand, presumably from a discerning audience).

I don't know anyone who uses a buttplate on a standard BP/W.

Good to know. I've been considering accessory storage. A Scuba Pro Hydros Pro video talking design philosophy got me thinking; once a traditional BCD gets lead in the weight pockets and air in the bladder, the pockets do constrict badly. Per the speaker, if you want pockets, they're more useful on your wetsuit. I'm thinking a pocket aqua sealed to my shorty leg for spare mask, SPG & spool. Gotta stick my folding Spyderco knife somewhere.

Some wing makes have added "wobble stops," ridges that help hold the tank in place. The degree to which that works varies. For this system to work, the slots in the wing must match the slots in the BP, and you can guarantee that if you get both from the same company.

Any suggestion on brands where that's known to work well? I ask because people often recommend aluminum over SS BPs for travel due to weight, which confused me because the SS BPs didn't seem to weigh that much more. But a STA adds a little more.

Richard.
 
I have both a Transpac as well as a Transplate. The Transpac is my go-to rig. I bought the Transplate when Dive Right In had a Black Friday sale on Hog Aluminum plates and 23# wings that I could not pass up. If you are wind shopping, make sure the elbow/inflator hose is on the left shoulder, not centered. My hog wing is centered and it takes inflator hose length and is directly in front of the first stage when all hooked up. I don't like it...but others may prefer that set up, just something to look out for.

I have air 2's on both rigs, upgraded the Hog Wing to a pull dump and longer hose, and I also dive with a regular Octo as well. Despite Scubaboard legend, I have not died yet....but I don't dive split fins.

The best part about any BP/W setup is you make it yours. Abosulutely totally customized to what you want. On my Backplate, I have some Halcyon quick release weights, d rings where I want them (but without looking like a Christmas tree). I have a cargo pocket that threads onto the waist strap that I carry a small knife (LFK?) trauma shears, and a sandwhich and a beer in case I get hungry at depth.

Transpac is set up the same but without the quick release weight, I do have XS Scuba weight pockets.

I found some belt clip cell phone holders with elastic edges that hold 2 or 3 pound weights perfectly and clip on to tank cam bands like they were made to be there.

You can spend as little or as much as you want and have a rig that becomes YOUR rig. I will occasionally pull out my jacket type for a class, but I have zero regrets about going to a BPW type setup.

If I had it to do again, I would like a stainless long Backplate, but there's always Christmas..... the Backplate rig is slowly morphing into the cool water setup.

I absolutely love the Transpac and Transplate "delux" type harnesses with the quick disconnect shoulder straps....but my shoulder does not bend or rotate like it used to after years of abuse. (Hold my beer and watch this kind of stuff)

I still don't want split fins...ever...yet...maybe...

Whatever you decide, it will take a while to get dialed in, but once there, it is like an extension of your body. Go ahead...drink the Koolaid...we all did!!!

Jay
 
Richard. The beauty of BPW kits is the ability to build it and customize it to your exact needs. Then switch it around if things change. The down side is that very custominization makes the choices almost infinite and overwhelming.

Aluminum vs Steel. Both are rugged and will last years. There are few differences between standard plates. The greatest difference is the weight. Aluminum will be slightly lighter for travel. Steel will be heavier and so you will need less extra weight, in pockets or belt. But its possible with a steel plate and steel tank that you may need very little ditchable weight if any. Would you mind diving with little to no additional weights to ditch?

Wings. There are a lot of good wings out there. My favorites are Oxycheq and the new VDH Argonut wing. The Oxycheq is built like a tank and the VDH isn’t far behind and packs easier. They are both donut wings. And they both have sta’s built in to stabalize the tank without a metal sta.

The next important choice is harness, from the single webbing DIR style to the so called comfort harness. And cambands, standard or release. D-rings fixed angle or flat, how many and where. Weight and trim pockets. Accessory pouches.

Few of us buy the whole rig as a standard set. If I was building one today without the option of the Freedom plate, I would look at the Vintage Double Hose steel back plate, in stock now, and pair it with the 23 or 35 wing depending on your dive plan when he gets more in stock. I’d pair that with his Dir harness with the bent d-rings and crotch strap.

Then I’d pick the camband from DGE and a set or two of trim or waist band weight pockets. And finish with a Dive Rite or Hollis utility or mask pocket.
 
If you are wind shopping, make sure the elbow/inflator hose is on the left shoulder, not centered. My hog wing is centered and it takes inflator hose length and is directly in front of the first stage when all hooked up.

Why are some placed in the middle? I see what you mean that it'd reduce effective hose length.

I absolutely love the Transpac and Transplate "delux" type harnesses with the quick disconnect shoulder straps....

Seems to be a point of controversy in threads; whether one 'just needs' basic webbing, or quick release & such 'enhancements' are nice conveniences. I like conveniences. Does this make getting in & out of your kit on the boat easier/faster?

I have both a Transpac as well as a Transplate. The Transpac is my go-to rig.

Since you have both, why do you prefer the Transpac? Looking & reading online, it seems like a BP setup with the same sort of padding that people deride jacket BCDs for having on the grounds it adds buoyancy and requires more lead to keep down. Am I misunderstanding the issue? I get it's more comfortable for long walks (hikes?) to/from the dive site, but I don't do anything more extensive than shore diving Bonaire (never mind 1,000 Steps; won't base gear decision on one site!).

The beauty of BPW kits is the ability to build it and customize it to your exact needs. Then switch it around if things change. The down side is that very custominization makes the choices almost infinite and overwhelming.

If I lived near, oh, say, Leisure Pro, I'd probably have a good feeling because I could personally eye ball and handle options from multiple lines of gear. Looking at online photos & descriptions and trying to imagine it isn't the same. Yesterday I wandered into my LDS; didn't see any BP/W setups. An old instructor of mine in the next state doesn't have a LDS but does some gear sales; he or a group he's with, not sure, handle some Dive Rite gear, but I know him...I'd feel awkward showing up to look things over, then walking off saying 'Nah.' If I hit him up to see stuff, I'd want to be pretty sure it's what I wanted to buy. I'm checking into another option or so, but no word back.

Would you mind diving with little to no additional weights to ditch?

Ideally I prefer to have some ditchable weight, but I do little cold water quarry diving (none this year; perhaps averaging 2 a year?), so it wouldn't drive the decision. I'm willing to dive without ditchable on occasion. If I dove cold a lot, I'd rethink. I usually require enough weight I suspect I'll still have a little in the weight pouches, though time may tell.

Wings. There are a lot of good wings out there. My favorites are Oxycheq and the new VDH Argonut wing. The Oxycheq is built like a tank and the VDH isn’t far behind and packs easier. They are both donut wings. And they both have sta’s built in to stabalize the tank without a metal sta.

You remind me of another question, based on this blurb from a Dive Gear Express page on Single Tank Mounting with Back Plates.

"We are often asked if the tank mount would be more stable and secure using the STA, as opposed to threading the cam straps directly through the backplate. We've tested several configurations and discovered that threading the straps through the backplate is at least as stable as when using an STA. Using an STA sets the tank farther away from the backplate and allows the tank to rock slightly by pivoting from side to side on the bolts. Using the straps threaded to through the backplate snugs the tank and wing up very tight against the backplate and does not allow the tank to rock.

Finally, although a common practice we do not recommend transporting your wing sandwiched between a backplate and single tank adapter, they should be disassembled to individual components with the soft goods packed separately from the hard metal components. The hard edges of the plate and STA if stored together with the wing and if subjected to ordinary impact could puncture the bladder inside the wing and cause a leak."

They don't seem to think a STA is needed if just using single-tank all the time, but the 2nd bit is what I'm talking about now...do most BP/W owners break the thing down when they travel?

With a jacket BCD, I historically opened a big suitcase, laid it in, packed other gear around it, zipped up, weighed with portable scale to make sure < 50 lbs., and called it good.

Do BP/W owners typically do the same thing, or is there more hassle involved?

Richard.

P.S.: Thanks to everyone for all your help. I've dug into some other threads struggling to develop an adequate understanding, but it's a lot to take in.
 
I'm thinking a pocket aqua sealed to my shorty leg for spare mask, SPG & spool. Gotta stick my folding Spyderco knife somewhere.
I prefer pocket shorts. I can wear them with a variety of wetsuits.

Any suggestion on brands where that's known to work well?
I have never used a single tank wing without an STA, so I cannot comment on how well any of them work.

Seems to be a point of controversy in threads; whether one 'just needs' basic webbing, or quick release & such 'enhancements' are nice conveniences. I like conveniences. Does this make getting in & out of your kit on the boat easier/faster?
The idea behind the very simple web with no extra connections was born in cave diving, with the theory that you did not want one of those buckles to break while you are back in a cave. Some people are passionate about that for all situations. IMO, if you are just doing open water diving, go for the convenience.
 
Do BP/W owners typically do the same thing, or is there more hassle involved?
My BP/w fits better in my suitcase if I disassemble it. This consists of undoing two wingnuts and separates the unit into my backplate with harness, the wing itself, and my sta with the cam bands/trim pockets. It takes roughly 15 seconds.
 
@drrich2 , I’m just going to add my 2 cents about the Transpac and can confirm that it is very stable in the water, very comfortable and conforms to your body. Excellent piece of gear that’s well made, except that I had the unfortunate experience of the cam bands rusting on mine and hubby’s on a 7 night liveaboard trip. For full disclosure, Dive Rite sent me new cam bands which I am very grateful for but am a little scared bringing it on my next liveaboard where rinsing after every dive is inconvenient or not possible.

My only complaint is that it has thick padding, which is what makes it the perfect rig to carry a tank over long distances, which was what it was intended for. Due to this padding, however, it is buoyant as you indicated and less packable vs a bp/w. A bp/w packs much flatter.

One of the reasons why we bought this was the quick release buckles, which makes donning and doffing much easier, especially when one is diving off a boat where the crew hauls the rig up the boat first before you board the boat (i.e. Cozumel).

Having done some training in a one piece harness bp/w recently, I’ve learned to like it, but I’ve also had guidance with sizing and the tips and tricks of it, which is very helpful.
 
@drrich2

For the record, I use a BCD for teaching, I have a Transplate for winter diving, a Transpac for summer and a conventional harness on my SM gear. I say that because my opinions aren't based on just using one system/harness

With Transplate/pack the harness is designed to plate the weight of the tank on the hips. I generally dive 15L steels (HP120) off boats, so that's nice

The QR plastic clips - are okay, I generally only use them when moving between exposure suits., The shoulder straps should be loose enough to get a clenched fist between them and you under water. That said I found it easier to adjust and set up than a conventional harness.

My QR clips have stood up teh the extreme temps of teh middle east without failure

I use a voyager wing. It's been great and shows no sign of wear after 500 plus dives, some inside wrecks. Its great on a steel but maybe too big for an Ali. I like the triangular shape and find it give good lift at the surface in choppy seas

I disconnected the pull dump cable as it annoyed me As when inflated at the surface it could stretch the inflator hose enough to dump a bit of air.

I use pockets on my waist band to stash stuff - that way - I don't like thigh pockets - personal choice

I only need weight in rear trim pockets on my summer rig with Ali tanks

I have a Butt plate for cylinders but also I stash stuff on it rather than a rear D ring as stuff there annoys me - personal choice again.

The pad on the transpac is removed on mine for 2 reasons, 1 it adds a little bit of buoyancy, 2 it traps water and causes a warm spot on my back in my waters.

I don't bother to use the centre chest strap

Setting up a Transpac/ plate is less faff than a single piece harness for sure, but once either is set it's done unless you need to replace the webbing or change the size, so no biggie.

Hope that helps
 
drrich2:
With a jacket BCD, I historically opened a big suitcase, laid it in, packed other gear around it, zipped up, weighed with portable scale to make sure < 50 lbs., and called it good.

Most (not all) BP&W divers have multiple BP setups for different dives. I have a steel plate for Jupiter diving and an aluminum for vacation diving. 6 pounds is ALOT when you are limited to 50.

drrich2:
Seems to be a point of controversy in threads; whether one 'just needs' basic webbing, or quick release & such 'enhancements' are nice conveniences.

The "conveniences" part you mention when comparing anything against a one piece webbing is not so much about donn & doff. It's about placing different 'D' ring styles (straight/45 degree/fixed 180/etc to get 'exactly' what you want instead of what's given to you. For me, having the correct 'D' ring styles in different spots is a safety and speed issue. I can't be 'no-look' searching for a folded or stuck D ring on my rear hip. Also, pockets / weights / canisters can be placed how "you want them" not how they are given to you. If you hold 'something' regularly in your left hand (cam/flag/gun) then it make more sense to have a right hand pocket / "D" ring to reach an item.

drrich2:
same sort of padding ...... on the grounds it adds buoyancy and requires more lead to keep down

I have a back pad on my plate. Most back pads are open cell so neutrally buoyant once on the bottom and no effect. The only reason for my back pad is to hold a 50lb lift bag that is tucked behind it. I have to loosen my waist belt to grab it. Only use it once a year,but when it's needed, it's because I'm lifting a $400 new anchor I've found to the surface to sell later.(and it's additional safety item)

drrich2:
They don't seem to think a STA is needed if just using single-tank all the time, but the 2nd bit is what I'm talking about now...do most BP/W owners break the thing down when they travel?

Oxychek uses 2 nylon rods sewn into the wing for STA. It's solid right against the plate for no movement. I never break down my wing, That's a waste of time and a future failure point if put back together loose or wrong. KISS keep it simple.

In the end,,,,,your whole decision will come down to how frustrated you get with your gear. If you never care that a "D" ring/pocket/canister won't fit on your current BC then just buy an off the shelf BP&W like the Transpac. You can always sell it later can change. But if you are a "tinker'r" and need certain items in exactly the right place for speed and safety then get a one piece web. Some people just buy a car and drive it,,,others of us will start changing/adding to a brand new car.
 

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