Muck Dive; Lembeh vs Milne Bay

[red-lipped batfish]

Hi there

Would be grateful for input on the diving in Milne Bay and Lembeh. Dived at KBR last year and absolutely loved it. Thinking of going on a liveaboard to Milne Bay next year. Is the extra hundreds of dollars to Milne Bay worth it? Should I return to Lembeh for muck diving?

 

[scubashooter]

Errr very different diving. With Milne you have a variety of sites from bommies to muck and even some pelagic sites.
Lembeh, unless you go really deep to find swordfish or something, is pretty much muck only. So no comparison as they are different.

 

[diver janet]

Hi there

Would be grateful for input on the diving in Milne Bay and Lembeh. Dived at KBR last year and absolutely loved it. Thinking of going on a liveaboard to Milne Bay next year. Is the extra hundreds of dollars to Milne Bay worth it? Should I return to Lembeh for muck diving?

I agree with Scubashooter....very different! If you loved Lembeh last year because of the small critters, go back....I haven't found anywhere else in the world (yet) that has so many in such a small area........there are a few great "muck" sites in Milne Bay but you won't find nearly the biodiversity there is in Lembeh. Most boats doing Milne Bay combine the "muck" with open ocean sites, wall sites and other "signature dives" like the shark feeds or Nautilus dives; a more varied itinerary.

 

[red-lipped batfish]

You guys have been great...Thanks very much!

 

[silent running]

Hello red lipped batfish, I've dove Milne bay several times as well as most other parts of PNG, never been to Lembeh. I've seen most of the the famous muck characters there without looking too hard and I've seen plenty of pictures of the more difficult to spot critters, so they are there in MB. But it is my understanding that the density of mucky critters is higher in Lembe, so they will probably be easier tio find. This seems to be the major difference as it relates to muck diving. But I definitely don't agree with the comment made above about Lembeh having more diversity. Especially if by diversity you mean number of species in 1 place. Considering that you will almost never see any larger fish, pelagic or otherwise in Lembeh, it's definietly less diverse than MB. I have talked to people who've been to both places and this seems to be the consensus. I prefer PNG because I know I have a good chance of seeing everything, big and small. As for dive operators in MB who know the area and know muck stuff best, I would recommend the Telita and Capt. Bob Halstead, who's written several fish ID books, the Chertan and Capt. Van der Loos and Golden Dawn with Capt. Craig de Wit. These guys know MB very well and all dig the muck, fantastic resources. There is also a new land based resort in MB and I'd bet they have plenty of first rate critter dive sites staked out if they know which side their bread is buttered on-Andy

 

[silent running]

Oh and by the way r-l-b, on my last trip to MB in Nov. we saw what could be described as a Weedy Leaf Ghost Pipe fish. It was very similar in shape to a Green Leaf Ghost Pipe fish, except it had Frondosa like apendages on all it's edges and it was darker, but not as dark as the Brown Leaf Ghost Pipe fish. It could be something new. And the MB land resort is called Tawali.-Andy

 

[scubashooter]

But I definitely don't agree with the comment made above about Lembeh having more diversity. Especially if by diversity you mean number of species in 1 place.

Andy
I believe Janet is referring to critter diversity, such as cephalopods, opistobranchs and crustaceans. Lembeh is pretty much muck with a few sites with coral, unless you go up to Bunaken or down to Togians. Obviously, in full marine biodiversity in a single area, a few places like Rajah Ampat or the Sundas would beat PNG.
About your new ghost pipefish, was it golden/yellow brown in color, and it crawls. Do the appendages stick out of the sides along the whole body and it's pretty small...like less than 3-4cm (2")?

 

[red-lipped batfish]

Thanks Andy for the input! was on febrina in 2004 with capt alan, to kimbe, witus and fathers. alan, the crew, and the boat were great. am tempted to join them again. but yes, i have heard loads about craig and bob halstead...so very torn.

hope to see the weedy ghostpipefish...isn't it green?

o...scubashooter, raja ampats nice....wobbegongs galore!!!!

 

[silent running]

Hello scubashooter, you may be right about the biodiversity topping out in the above mentioned places. And not to sound contrarian or to undermine my earlier statement about PNG diversity, but the highest number of species doesn't always add up to the best diving experience. I think there are several concepts wrapped up in the idea of biodiversity, not all leading to the same place. Please allow me to explain as best I can. I meant that in comparing Lembeh and Milne bay PNG in terms of variety of oddball critter life, they are not so different. I for one am happy with seeing 1 Mimic Octopus. Seeing 5 or 6 is doesn't, I feel, add much to the experience. To continue, I believe that most if not all of the critters one could find in Lembeh, can be found in MB. As for PNG as a whole, having been around most of the country, there was hardly a day that went by without someone on the boat finding a nudibranch that wasn't descibed in any of our books. And I believe the most recent marine creature of any size that was discovered in the Indo-Pacific was a kind of nocturnal Bambo shark several feet long, found in Madang harbour 5 or so years ago. So PNG is no slouch in terms of pure marine biodiversity. There will probably be things you could find only in one place or the other, but gathering from the info I got from several avid critter hunter/photogs, the main difference btw the 2 places lies in the ease with which the critters are found due to shear numbers. Which, to me, seems a bit...unnatural. It almost seems that things in the Lembeh area are a bit out of balance. Much of Indo, indeed most of the Indo-Pacific seems to be missing the larger animals which eat the smaller animals. This is perhaps an over simplification and I'm certainly no expert in marine ecosytem analysis, but I think this is significant. My first post on this thread was meant to try and respond to the diversity question raised by diverjanet as well to address the overall jist of the question posed by the originator of the thread, which I took to mean: 'Will I be disappointed with Milne Bay and the extra money spent getting there after diving Lembeh, or could it be justified by some other factors?' I think the biodiversity issue is somewhat misleading in this case and not just in an aesthetic fish watching sense. To me the thing which makes a destination most satisfying is not just variety, it's getting the sense that you are able to observe a complex and large range of animal interaction-a sort of big balance, which I think PNG still has more than anywhere else. I think there is a direct correlation to the health/balance of a marine environment and population density. And PNG has one of the lowest in the world. As far as the pipe fish I saw, it did not crawl, it hovered motionless, it was brownish green and the weedy frondosa like appendages went all the way around the edge of it's slender body. It was about 4 inches long.-Andy

 

[scubashooter]

To me the thing which makes a destination most satisfying is not just variety, it's getting the sense that you are able to observe a complex and large range of animal interaction-a sort of big balance, which I think PNG still has more than anywhere else. I think there is a direct correlation to the health/balance of a marine environment and population density. And PNG has one of the lowest in the world.

Andy you just agreed with Janet. Both she and I said the diving is different, not better or worse. One muck mostly and the other a great mix.
As for Lembeh vs Milne Bay on critters, I beg to differ on several issues. Sure one mimic is good enough, but you'll never see them mate if there's only one, same with any other species. Lembeh is special because it is all muck. That ecosystem creates interactions that is unique. Bunama, Observation Pt and others all are similar but only in isolated mini areas. On the other hand, Lembeh presents a great place for muck galore. And you are absolutely right. Lembeh has declined in the last 5 years due to population pressure. Just 12 years ago, the life was even more prolific and you even saw the odd whaleshark (which was quickly fished out when sighted). Anyhow, there are places that are even better than Lembeh for critters.
I love PNG, I've spent months in New Britain, New Ireland, the Wuvulus and the Milne area amongst others. Comparing places to me is somewhat folly. Rajah Ampat cannot match shark populations with even sea world because the pelagic sharks are either way deep (I saw 2 great hammers in the total of 16 weeks I've spent there) or at weddings in South East Asia. But you want reef bio diversity, corals and reef fish, there's no other place to match, save maybe the sundas. In places in Misool, you have 2.5m queensland groupers hiding in the caves and shadows while millions of reef fish are busy doing their thing, tunas pop by as do other pelagics on the smaller scale. So fish species do count if that's what you're looking for. And it happens to be just part of the same island chain as...Milne Bay. RLG asked what sort of diving to expect, and it is different.
As for species discovery, I doubt we'd ever find the true number of creatures that live in the sea. The Indopacific area is the marine biodiversity capital of the world, be it Indo, philippines or PNG. The golden triangle of diving covers all the areas we've mentioned. Unfortunately 200 million people live in that same triangle...so it's better we dive it and see it before it's gone!