Muck Dive; Lembeh vs Milne Bay

[silent running]

Hi scubashooter, we are all in basic agreement and your point about being able to see things like mating behavior of critters due to their shear numbers in Lembeh is well taken. And you are especially right that comparisons are problematic. I was just trying to point out that there was plenty of overlap and that there were other good points that might justify the added expense. As for other parts of Indo, like Raja Empats, all of the people I talked to said that there was very noticable scarcity of larger fish. I'm glad to hear that you saw some. You are the only person I have heard tell of any sharks, much less Great Hammers. This is very good news and makes me think that it is at least possible to have a well rounded dive experience in Irian Jaya. And since I dive with a CCR I can go deep and hang around looking for whatever big stuff there is. I almost went for a vist to Irian Divers a while back, but I prefer diving with other rebreather divers and I couldn't find anyone to go with. By the way, which place do you think has the best critter diving these days?-Andy

 

[scubashooter]

Hi scubashooter, we are all in basic agreement and your point about being able to see things like mating behavior of critters due to their shear numbers in Lembeh is well taken. And you are especially right that comparisons are problematic. I was just trying to point out that there was plenty of overlap and that there were other good points that might justify the added expense. As for other parts of Indo, like Raja Empats, all of the people I talked to said that there was very noticable scarcity of larger fish. I'm glad to hear that you saw some. You are the only person I have heard tell of any sharks, much less Great Hammers. This is very good news and makes me think that it is at least possible to have a well rounded dive experience in Irian Jaya. And since I dive with a CCR I can go deep and hang around looking for whatever big stuff there is. I almost went for a vist to Irian Divers a while back, but I prefer diving with other rebreather divers and I couldn't find anyone to go with. By the way, which place do you think has the best critter diving these days?-Andy

Well the problem with Rajah Ampat is that the itineraries of the boats follow a schedule. And it is a big area. So you need special charters or extended trips to hit the good spots, esp the pelagic spots. Mind you, the pelagics are obviously not in the numbers of say sipadan (in the hey days) or Cocos/Galapagos, but not many places are.
You are absolutely right to find a fellow CCR. Rajah Ampat is very isolated and the closest chamber I believe is either Manado or Port Moresby. You do not want to have crap happen there basically. I like Kri and Sorido but a liveaboard is the only way to do Papua Barat.
PS I could tell you about the best critter place... but I'd have to kill you immediately.

 

[silent running]

Couldn't you just kill me after I do the dive? ...Which liveaboard(s) do you like for Papua Barat? There seem to be a lot that go there now, but there used to be none. I wonder which one has the most experience in the area.-Andy

 

[scubashooter]

Couldn't you just kill me after I do the dive? ...Which liveaboard(s) do you like for Papua Barat? There seem to be a lot that go there now, but there used to be none. I wonder which one has the most experience in the area.-Andy

Well the Pindito was used with the TNC survey in 2001, but since then quite a few boats have explored and at least the 3 I've been on and the others have their own little secret places. You are limited to EAN boats due to your CCR. Most have DNAX installed so you may be limited to 32%. I believe the Pindito and Kararu's Sea Safari III(used them in Komodo but not in RA) have EAN. The Pelagian's schedule now that it is hooked in with Wakatobi is uncertain. So I guess you have those 2 to choose from. I like the Pindito and they know the area very well and are top notch. I will no longer use Kararu.
No, the point of finding sleepers is to dive it until it becomes mainstream... like Lembeh, Rajah Ampat and .........

 

[red-lipped batfish]

hey silent shooter...was wondering if you have anything toa dd on going to mmilne bay on the febrina...also am prone to seasickness, are telita and golden dawn comparable to the febrina in terms of stability? i thought the star dancer was truly dancing (rocking vigorusly) at the crossing when we were at png last.
tks.

 

[silent running]

Hello rlb, you are talking to me, right? While the Stardancer is a nicely appointed boat, she is probably the least stabile boat in PNG, except the very most top heavy boat of them all, Paradise Sport. SD, like many of the Hughes and Aggressor boats, is I believe an ex-oil rig tender, which means she has a flatter, planing type hull. These boats were designed with speed and economy in mind as fuel costs are less when there is less of the hull to push beneathe the water. But the trade off is they are not very stabile, even at anchor. When I was in New Britain on the Golden Dawn, we had no trouble making it out to the Witus in the 6-8ft swells. The SD couldn't make the trip. I had the same experience on the TCI Aggressor. We never made it to the farthest and best site because of...4ft swells! I will never go on one of those boats again. Their itineraries are thrown off by the most minor bit of windy weather, not my idea of trip money well spent. Febrina is much more stable than SD as she has a deeper, more v shaped hull, but she is a still a little top heavy thanks to the extra story which was put on years ago. The Telita is a bit better as she has a nice v hull and is less top heavy. I think she also now has the passive stabilizers which are put out when at anchor and further decrease side to side motion. Golden Dawn is the most stabile boat I've ever been on. She has a deep, wooden, v hull which absorbs shock much better than metal or fiberglass, she has the passive stabilizers for anchoring and GD is the only PNG boat with active, gyro fin stabilizers which allow her to handle very rough weather with ease. I've slept through crossing the Vitiaz Straight in 12 ft seas on GD. I also prefer the boats mid point dive entry at the fulcrum point of the boat, where there is the least movement. That goes for cabin choice also. If you are the sea sick type, always go for the cabin which is lowest and closest to the center. That's where the least motion will be. Oh, and the food on GD is the best I've ever had on a boat.-Andy

 

[red-lipped batfish]

Thanks silent running (sorry for the mistake), you are great!

 

[diver janet]

Thanks silent running (sorry for the mistake), you are great!

I'm so glad we are all essentially in agreement on this subject !!

That being said, what I'm looking for when I dive is the "most bang for my buck" and to me, having all the critters in Lembeh in easy distance with easy diving works well.

I did Raja earlier this year and it was good diving, I didn't consider it great diving! We were on the Pelagian (pre Wakatobi purchase) and did the Waigiou area, not Misool because of the weather. We saw lots of fish but they were small fish, not too many big ones, no manta and very, very few sharks & some raging currents. We did some "muck" diving and it was good but not fantastic. Deb Fugitt of City Seahorse runs a couple of photographic-intensive trips to the Raja area every year aboard the SMY Ondina and selects dive sites specially geared to both wide-angle and then macro days.....ours was a group charter with photographers and we selected dive sites based on vis, winds, and divers' wishes. Unfortunately, on several dive sites we were advised that "wide-angle would be preferred" and got down there and vis was horrible, etc and then the dive guides would find pygmy seahorses, pipefish, etc so it was challenging, to say the least, photographically!

Craig deWit of the Golden Dawn is a rebreather guy...he might be your best bet if you choose PNG instead of going back to Lembeh. He moves the GD all around PNG seasonally; I have the boat chartered for late 2006 to do Eastern Fields; we're going to try something different this time!

I will, however, return to Lembeh as soon as possible, before all the "bigger" boats really start affecting the critters that remain there. Aggressor is moving the Truk boat there later this year, Aqua One is doing some itineraries there and so is Ocean Rover. I can't imagine the effect dumping 20 divers on some of those sites is going to have. Luckily they are combining Bangka and Bunaken on some of their itineraries so they won't be spending all their time in Lembeh Straits.

Have fun making your choice....you'll have a great time whatever you decide to do!

 

[pelan-pelan]

You might be interested in comments in the Manado, N Sulawesi Creatures large and small thread.

Manado offers both muck and easy access to Bunaken for larger stuff. No, not hammerheads, and I daresay small groups of black tip reef seem a bit tame by comparison. But huge shoals of snapper, trevally, batfish, barrracuda etc, some doing the classic Sipadan spiral. I don't know if it was because it was a full moon, but Fukui was stunning - fish soup.

You can always tell when someone's just come back from excellent diving - they just rave on! For lists of muck critters - see the other thread.

 

[scubashooter]

I'm so glad we are all essentially in agreement on this subject !!

That being said, what I'm looking for when I dive is the "most bang for my buck" and to me, having all the critters in Lembeh in easy distance with easy diving works well.

I did Raja earlier this year and it was good diving, I didn't consider it great diving! We were on the Pelagian (pre Wakatobi purchase) and did the Waigiou area, not Misool because of the weather.
Craig deWit of the Golden Dawn is a rebreather guy...he might be your best bet if you choose PNG instead of going back to Lembeh. He moves the GD all around PNG seasonally; I have the boat chartered for late 2006 to do Eastern Fields; we're going to try something different this time!

Well seeing how Matt/Chris only started going to Papua Barat in 2001/2002 (and only seasonally after that) I can't be surprised that they didn't get their sites down. To concentrate an entire trip around Waigeo? Man I'd jump ship to the Pindito or even the Shakti. Misool and Kofiau are the better areas because there is less fishing there.
Absolutely one thing is certain, and that is Papua Barat has been overfished and only being started to be protected... even nominated for UNESCO heritage status.

Pelan Pelan
I agree that Manado side has a few sites for muck and they are excellent sites. But Lembeh has 20+ sites all on muck. That's enuff said as they say.