Mt. Everest
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mictrik
Contributor
On Long Island it is common to have very poor visibility and I would argue that visibility has actually improved since the 80's. I used to commonly pick lobsters on the north shore with no more than 3 feet of visibility. The ocean wrecks I have done usually offer better visibility but can very easily silt out to nothing. On wrecks like the San Diego, Oregon, and the Stolt which I used to dive frequently visibility could often be considered quite good but not Florida good. Remember
The Owner of LIS used to manage Divers way and he knows what he is doing. It is common to do beach dives and the visibility on these dives is often poor but you get used to it. There is nothing "Goofy" about these dive spots as they depict the conditions that divers will often encounter in our area. I could argue that most Florida reef dives on the other hand would constitute a poor choice for open water dives as the Florida conditions are usually much better than the conditions our local divers endure. As far as getting "swept away" on an anchor line on your checkout beach dive; well, I think current of that kind would and should result in an abort of an OW checkout dive. I also don’t understand what the anchor line is for on a beach dive?
Bottom line concepts:
The Andrea Doria presents much more risk than the Spiegel Grove.
North East diving is on average considerably more risky and rigorous than Florida dives.
Looking for the "Mt Everest" of dives is silly as different dives will present differently at different times just like "K2" could well prove to be a more risky climb.
The somewhat recent acceptance of mixed gasses has increased the depths that divers can reach thus rendering wrecks like the Britanic within a modern divers reach. Yes, because of the depth this dive is probably considerably more risky than the Andrea Doria...
If you learned to dive in the North East it does NOT mean that you are a more competent diver than someone who leaned in Florida or some other region.
You can drown in your bathtub.
The Owner of LIS used to manage Divers way and he knows what he is doing. It is common to do beach dives and the visibility on these dives is often poor but you get used to it. There is nothing "Goofy" about these dive spots as they depict the conditions that divers will often encounter in our area. I could argue that most Florida reef dives on the other hand would constitute a poor choice for open water dives as the Florida conditions are usually much better than the conditions our local divers endure. As far as getting "swept away" on an anchor line on your checkout beach dive; well, I think current of that kind would and should result in an abort of an OW checkout dive. I also don’t understand what the anchor line is for on a beach dive?
Bottom line concepts:
The Andrea Doria presents much more risk than the Spiegel Grove.
North East diving is on average considerably more risky and rigorous than Florida dives.
Looking for the "Mt Everest" of dives is silly as different dives will present differently at different times just like "K2" could well prove to be a more risky climb.
The somewhat recent acceptance of mixed gasses has increased the depths that divers can reach thus rendering wrecks like the Britanic within a modern divers reach. Yes, because of the depth this dive is probably considerably more risky than the Andrea Doria...
If you learned to dive in the North East it does NOT mean that you are a more competent diver than someone who leaned in Florida or some other region.
You can drown in your bathtub.
I agree with everything you said above...and will try to answer the swept away aspect the newbie posted. There's this area in Brooklyn called "Beach & 8th st". In my best recollection it is a the garbage dump of an OC "checkout" sites. It is the equivlanet of the oxygen/excess garbage pile found at the bottom of Everest. It qualified as an OW checkout area because it is the ocean. That's all. They risk elements like sewage streaming past (bad viz), broken bottles and former mental patients made it sleazy, and a bit eccentric. It also had some tidal flows which got dicey off slack. Students were asked to hold onto a telephone cable, or some other hose thingie to prevent being swept away. A silly place to get qualified. One things for sure...no one ever works on buoyancy skills there. It's sit on the bottom and hold on while an instructor checks out sutdents holding on the this cable. Wonder if the the cable was electrified?
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mictrik
Contributor
Yeah, I know of the location but have never had the pleasure of diving there. My understanding is that this location is a slack tide only entry. Otherwise current problems would prevail as your worst issue. I used to prefer Secret Beach, the Port Jeff jetties, and the Ponquogue Bridge among other places for shore diving. I would sometimes drop into the Eastport quarry (I don’t think it exists anymore) as a "pre-rinse" freshwater dive after a morning bridge dive. I think that the 8th street dive in Brooklyn presents a local and inexpensive checkout as a boat trip would make OW classes more expensive. Many NYC dive shops used this location but I would agree it probably stinks quite literally but then again they have few options in the city. I guess if you are lucky enough to be informed before you take a class you can ask where the checkout dives will be held prior to signing up for the class.
Anthony Turner
Guest
those men were the TRUE pioneers of the DEEP dive to bad some have been lost. Doria is the Everest
DEEPLOU
Contributor
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If a dive site has been used for over 30 (maybe 40) years, there must be something right there.
Yes vis can be ****ty but then the weather topside is not always sunny and bright either.
I have only been there, Beach 8/9th a few times but get daily reports. Yes you do need to do it at slack, but there are many other dive sites that also need to be done at slack. Recently reports have been up to 40 feet of visability. In addition to the usually indiginous marine life there have been sightings of tropicals and sea horses all season.
Don't knock Beach 8/9th!!!
DEEPLOU
Contributor
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Sorry you don't like our local diving.
You didn't mention where you did your checkouts, someone else assumed you were down at Beach 8/9th. YOu complained the water is 60 deg, and btw: 60 is warm. I guess you did your checkouts several months ago as the water has been 68 to 70 on the beach since August.
Yeh, I was just down in FL, 85 deg water, 40 to 50 ft vis, but the wrecks we did were .....nothing. After abt 15 min I was bored, didn't need to worry abt remaing air (or gas), there just wasn't much more I wanted to see.
Up here there is so much to see and find on the real wrecks.
Please don't give up on LI diving.
If you haven't done AOW be sure to do it in the spring when I expect the next class to be set up.
Sorry, most all of the Doria stuff is gone, currently there is U-869 and Choppa stuff on display in addition to stuff from lots of more accessable wrecks.
i think that this kind of attitude is one reason for unnecessary accidents - coming from the pacific northwest where we have poor vis, cold water and strong currents as well (depending on the dive spot of course) i know some divers who think similarly as jrock, ie that diving warm water equals easy, risk-free dives. i have dived the spiegel several times, you can run into bad currents and rather poor viz as well - never underestimate the conditions. as we all know there have been too many tragic accidents already - leave your ego on the surface, enjoy the dive - there is no reward for the most "hardcore diver".
LOL!
It's still a crappy spot for a checkout dive. Trying to time tides is not always possible when checking out a class of newbies...why...because many, many moons ago I was asked to assistant instruct there. You can't certify some folks at 11:00 pm slack. It doesn't work that way. Having come from a place where buoyancy and standard OC skills were tested consistently, it was hard for me to see Beach & 8th St. instructors conduct OC checkout skills where simply holding onto a cable and doing a few minimal skills qualifed as "certifiable". Did I ever see an ESA? I also didn't see a complete BC on / off. I could go on. This also sets in mental motion that "minimal" skills is OK and that the god awful pony tamer and crap dnagling off me style of diving is the one to use.
An alternative to this crappy spot are the quarries in Pennsylvania. At least you have some viz. and no raging currents to contend with.
As per indigneous life. There are many to choose from. The surface denizens like mental patients hassling your dive students for cigarettes and money. The drunks throwing bottles of Thunderbird and Corona into the water. The meth & crack addicted fishermen snagging a diver between trips to the addiction center. Simply lovely.
While I can understand a local diver needing somewhere to go, I contend there are better spots than this dump for a checkout dive.
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aue-mike
Contributor
You are just going to the wrong FL wrecks
Amongst just a small group of divers three helms have come up, four telegraphs, a sextant, one bell, beautiful chamber pots and china, oodles of bottles and portholes, a docking telephone, and lots of other miscellaneous stuff so far this year from FL wrecks.
Uh, on the other hand, yes, there is nothing to see down here -- stay up north!
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