MSDT Prep Questions

[Stephen McCallister]

Hi Stephen,

Thanks for claryfying, I understand were you are coming from now. I'm glad you already read up on the 100 dives as a required minimum. Like most, I would encourage you to do as many dives as you can, so you will have experience to build on once you become a DM/ instructor. If you can do these dives without another instructor there, this is even better. You do not need to be a DM in order to lead a dive with buddy's so make sure you get some time in the water without an instructor there.
I also would advise you to just be a DM for a while, there is a whole lot to learn there. Given your tight schedule, this might not work for you, but if you have the chance, consider it.
The IDC is not about learning how to dive, it is learning how to teach. If you are like most, in the beginning of your teaching carreer this is quite enough to have on your mind, so I wouldnt worry too much about what specialties you are going to teach. After all, the main thing is learning how to teach a specialty, not so much the specialty itself.
After your IE you should talk to your CD on the most valuable specialties for the resort. Often nitrox, deep, ppb and night are quite frequently thought, but obviously this differs from place to place.
As said before, your schedule is quite thight. Hopefully, the resort ops you mention gives you a lot of teaching opportunities, because you do need to certify quite a few people before you can become an MSDT. Best of luck, keep learning and have fun!

Thanks for the advice and recommendations. The Resort Operations is a padi cert where you learn every part of resort operations. Such as logistics, scheduling, retail, prep work and back end stuff. I think this would be a good course to do with the dive master course. But the way the school is scheduling it, its after IDC and MSDT prep.
I wouldnt mind getting some real world experience as a dive master however given the situation that I am i cant really take that course of action. I will be rooming with 3 other guys that are doing the dive week and the dive master with me. I hope they are good people and help knock this out of the ball park and would want to do some practice runs on things before class begins.

 

[ScubaWithTurk]

I would like to chime in here with my two bar. I had planned on doing the same type of program you are doing. For many reasons, that did not happen. am very happy I did not go from DM to MSDT in a matter of weeks. I am not saying what you are doing is bad but I thought I would offer up some advice as you move towards becoming a pro.

1. Do all your skills neutral and push back if your instructor for DM has you demo the skills on your knees. This is not the way we dive and should never be the way we teach. I did my DM skill circuit neutral and then did all my skills during the IE neutral. I was the only one out of 25 candidates that did that and the examiners both commented on my obvious high skill level. I think this gained me some points when I lost my liftbag during the OW skills but that is a story for another day.

2. Watch and learn from as many different instructors as possible. This is how you will begin to understand course flow as well as allowing you to pick what you like about how they teach and what you don't like. You can then use these points to develop your own teaching "voice". I was lucky enough to learn from instructors from PADI, RAID and UTD. I am now feeling a bit stagnant and would like to get some experience with top level instructors to keep improving my teaching style.

3. I find PPB to be useless. Teach students the right way (neutral and in trim) from the start and it is not needed. If I were to get a student who needed help, I am more likely to do a workshop with them rather than pushing a course on them that is typically not very good. Yes this does depend on the instructor. No need to sell a card when you can get paid for your time and assist a diver.

4. I do not know what your plans are for teaching but if you want to leave the U.S. and teach, you need to know another language. I was passed over 6 times for being an English only speaker. Made the top 3 or 5 each time and they went with someone who could speak another language. Apparently English, British and Australian are not enough LOL

5. DIVE DIVE DIVE DIVE. Dive as often as you can without students!! Dive shallow, dive to 40 meters, dive wrecks and in currents. Then look into taking tech courses. This will all help you to be the best instructor you can become.

Good luck and keep us updated.

 

[wstorms]

1. Do all your skills neutral and push back if your instructor for DM has you demo the skills on your knees. This is not the way we dive and should never be the way we teach. I did my DM skill circuit neutral and then did all my skills during the IE neutral. I was the only one out of 25 candidates that did that and the examiners both commented on my obvious high skill level. I think this gained me some points when I lost my liftbag during the OW skills but that is a story for another day.

+1 from me

2. Watch and learn from as many different instructors as possible. This is how you will begin to understand course flow as well as allowing you to pick what you like about how they teach and what you don't like. You can then use these points to develop your own teaching "voice". I was lucky enough to learn from instructors from PADI, RAID and UTD. I am now feeling a bit stagnant and would like to get some experience with top level instructors to keep improving my teaching style.

and another +1

3. I find PPB to be useless. Teach students the right way (neutral and in trim) from the start and it is not needed. If I were to get a student who needed help, I am more likely to do a workshop with them rather than pushing a course on them that is typically not very good. Yes this does depend on the instructor. No need to sell a card when you can get paid for your time and assist a diver.

Here I disagree. I agree in the sense that if divers are trained neutrally buoyant, there isn't much to learn there. However, there are still a lot of divers out there who might benefit from extra focus on platform, weighting, trim and buoyancy. For these divers, PPB can be extremely beneficial. Obviously you can teach those skills without a formal course, but if you do that it is harder to use the PADI marketing materials.

4. I do not know what your plans are for teaching but if you want to leave the U.S. and teach, you need to know another language. I was passed over 6 times for being an English only speaker. Made the top 3 or 5 each time and they went with someone who could speak another language. Apparently English, British and Australian are not enough LOL

Learn the metric system as well while you're at it. Other things to increase your value for a dive operator is getting boating licenses as required, getting some experience (or even training) in gear maintenance, photo / video skills and (social media) marketing.

5. DIVE DIVE DIVE DIVE. Dive as often as you can without students!! Dive shallow, dive to 40 meters, dive wrecks and in currents. Then look into taking tech courses. This will all help you to be the best instructor you can become.

Couldn't agree more. Have fun!

 

[wstorms]

Self certification is only possible after you become an MSDT, and does not count towards it.

Self correction here: I was reading another tread on the same topic (what specialties to pick when becoming an MSDT) and that tread made my doubt and check my manual. Is is possible to self certify as an OWSI after you issued 25 certifications and have at least 20 dives in that particular field of expertise. There are some additional requirements regarding what kind of certifications counts towards the self certify limit and some specialties have additional requirements as well.

 

[Stephen McCallister]

I am always welcoming to advice.
1. Kinda thought thats the way they should be done, just not sure on how they grade the demonstrations. Definately will give it a go that way.
2. One of the selling points that made me choose the school that I am going to is that they have several CD's that involved in the training instead of just one or two.
3. I understand what you are saying and think that buoyancy should be enforced a little more. Seem some divers spend most of the dive time messing with their LPI instead of enjoying their dive. I have also seen divers that hit bottom and never come off it until its time to surface.
4. I think you forgot Scottish in those languages lol. I cant really go any where besides the US until my passport gets done and they are about 7 months behind in processing them. I used to speak japanese, german and spanish but its been so long that i have forgot most of it. Though I am sure that i can pick them up pretty easily again.
5. Cant get enough dives in.

It shouldnt be hard for me to pick up the metric system again. I spent most of my youth in Japan and Germany. I have heard that its not just diving/ teaching experience that most operators are looking for any more, I used to work IT and marketing. I did get a go pro (i know i know everyone has one) and been trying with pictures and videos while diving.

Thanks again for all of the advice. Will keep you updated on the progress.

 

[NorCalDM]

I have to ask but how long does this program take? So they are going to take you from DM to MSDT and meet all the requirements? The requirement to start MSDT is 25 certs I believe and there are some restrictions on what those certs can be.

 

[Stephen McCallister]

The DM class is 9 days then 1 day off then the IDC is another 9 days then EFRI class, then 2 days of IE, then 5 days of MSDT PREP. If i am not mistaken you can do the prep work but will not get the title until you do the 25 certs.

The number of dive and cert requirements are enforced before starting the program. However the program is customized to each diver, their cert level and number of dives. They have a DM, IDC, and MSDT prep course every month. Not sure how many people are in each class every month.

 

[NorCalDM]

Wow less than 30 days. I can take a guess at who it is and their classes are usually full but not sure right now with COVID.

 

[Stephen McCallister]

Rainbow? I know their classes are not full. had a friend go through it last month.

 

[boulderjohn]

I saw a DM go to one of those month-long programs, and I have to admit that when he came back, he was a much different diver. Gong that much diving with each dive working on skills can have a real effect. I don't dismiss those programs out of hand.

1. Do all your skills neutral and push back if your instructor for DM has you demo the skills on your knees. This is not the way we dive and should never be the way we teach. I did my DM skill circuit neutral and then did all my skills during the IE neutral. I was the only one out of 25 candidates that did that and the examiners both commented on my obvious high skill level. I think this gained me some points when I lost my liftbag during the OW skills but that is a story for another day.

The program that DM-turned-SDT went to did all skills fully anchored on the knees, and each skill was far, far more elaborate than necessary. When I saw their skill videos, I was appalled. I asked a PADI examiner about it, and he said those programs plan elaborate routines that include every possible nuance an individual examiner might like to see, and they then drill the students on them until they are perfect. He said if you cued a bunch of them to do the same skill at the same time, it would look like a synchronized swimming performance.

A couple years later, everything had changed. That program was now teaching all skills neutrally buoyant. They had somehow seen the light. I liked what I saw.

So check. If a program does skills on the knees, don't even consider it. There are programs that teach neutrally buoyant, and you may find such a program to be a real benefit for you.