Mr 100 Dive Wonder Instructor

[DandyDon]

I take the point to be that the industry needs a wakeup call. Rushing people from student to instructor with no REAL dive experience on thier own is just plain wrong. It is the reason we have people bicycling, and roto-tilling the bottoms. They had crappy instructors, who probably couldn't dive themselves, teaching incorrect techniques.

Yeah, but - to make the course really good, and the Instructors all good ones, would probably double the cost. Then what...?

 

[fire_diver]

Well then, how do you make a change? The industry needs interested people to grow the business and maintain income. It is difficult for some dive shops to say no to the income of IDC. Telling this story here only confirms what most know already, that there are some really awful divers and instructors out there. How does it wake the "industry?

As for bad divers, who knows what is bad instruction or bad diving. The standards do not work to keep people with little ability from dive equipment. I have seen wonderful instructors produce really awful divers and usually it is due to diver attitude and not instruction.

Bad instructors are not all rushed, some have an attitude of possessing greater knowledge than they really do, diving longer may not change that. Not all crappy divers or crappy instructors are products of the "industry".

Ok, how do I make the change? I can't, but I can educate people. If enough people get educated, it pressure the dive shops to pay attention to the people they are qualifying as instructors.

"who knows what is bad instruction or bad diving" I can not even believe you wrote that. Bad instruction is teaching students to sit on the bottom. Bad instruction is overweighting students. How long before a new student realizes they don't need that much weight? For most, it's never. Bad instruction is not correcting the roto-tilling students. Ever wonder why SCUBA has such a low continuance rate? Maybe it's becuase people weren't given proper instruction, certified when they don't know squat, and become immediately frustrated that diving isn't any fun. As for the "bad diving", I don't have to explain that. We see it every day we hit the water with other divers present.

"Not all crappy divers or crappy instructors are products of the 'industry' ". YES THEY ARE! They are the result of dive shops that don't care about quality, and cert agencies that don't care about dive shops doing anything they want. The whole world (or at least America for my limited exposure) has gotten too "don't hurt anyones feelings, we can all be winners" for it's own good. I wish to GOD that some shop owners out there have the balls to tell someone, "I won't take you as an IDC even with the requesit dives and classes under you belt. You're not ready". Or even better, to tell them that they will not submit thier paperwork until they see emotional improvements in areas of X, Y and Z. When the "industry" as a whole adopts this attitude, then and only then will we see a good quality, fresh OW student.

FD

 

[fire_diver]

Yeah, but - to make the course really good, and the Instructors all good ones, would probably double the cost. Then what...?

Then we double the cost, and start getting good instruction. I would rather PAY for an instructor and DM to teach me, than to get a cheap class with poor quality leadership.

We do this great passtime a great disservice by continuing in the rubber-stamp, puppy mill approach to dive instruction.

FD

 

[DandyDon]

Then we double the cost, and start getting good instruction. I would rather PAY for an instructor and DM to teach me, than to get a cheap class with poor quality leadership.

We do this great passtime a great disservice by continuing in the rubber-stamp, puppy mill approach to dive instruction.

FD

True, but it'd kill the industry. More than half who train now wouldn't do it.

I am afraid the best improvements come from threat of insurance costs and lawsuits in the US. In the Caribe and Mexico - watch your ***..!!

 

[Azza]

Well then, how do you make a change? The industry needs interested people to grow the business and maintain income. It is difficult for some dive shops to say no to the income of IDC. Telling this story here only confirms what most know already, that there are some really awful divers and instructors out there. How does it wake the "industry?

As for bad divers, who knows what is bad instruction or bad diving. The standards do not work to keep people with little ability from dive equipment. I have seen wonderful instructors produce really awful divers and usually it is due to diver attitude and not instruction.

Bad instructors are not all rushed, some have an attitude of possessing greater knowledge than they really do, diving longer may not change that. Not all crappy divers or crappy instructors are products of the "industry".

I understand where you are coming from Charlie.

I wrote this story to prove a point to someone who commented that short courses don't matter.
Some people appreciate the story, some people understand where I am coming from, some don't and some think I am arrogant for simply knowing basic diving, and trying to point it out to a 100DWI.

I don't really think it's too much of a big deal if an ow student has a short course, especially if they only ever plan to dive occasionally and for fun.
But if an OW students does a short lacking course, then becomes an Instructor, and teaches another, who in turn becomes an Instructor....

I'm not sure the industry will ever change. I guess all we can do is try to play our own little part in ensuring divers learn.

I was sitting around one day having a few beers with a mate, post dive, and we were talking about these other divers (recent graduates of an AOW course we found out later) we had come across. I was a little annoyed that they had no sense of awareness, no respect for their environment and very little skill. They were ripping out kelp in their keeness to crab a few crayfish, kicking up the bottom and grabbing Cray's by their feelers...which of course ripped straight out.

I made an offhand comment about their instructor getting a kick up the backside and his reply that if I thought I could do better, then why didnt I?

That was when I decided to try and play my part by becoming an instructor.

But one need'nt even be an Instructor or DM to play a part. Simply strive to become a better and more aware diver and try to take a few newbies under ones wing. Mentoring is a fantastic way to to play a part.

 

[TSandM]

Mentoring is a fantastic way to to play a part.

This I do. I don't feel competent to teach someone to dive, but I'm happy to go diving with a novice. I can provide a steady buddy for them to key off of, and at the end of the dive, I can perhaps pass on one or two of the many tips I got from MY mentors. There is a HUGE hole in the diving world between OW education and competent diving, and people like me, for whom this whole thing comes hard, cannot afford to pay an instructor to dive with them for months. Mentors are priceless. And some people are temperamentally suited to do it, and others just aren't.

 

[Azza]

Oh BTW- The 100DWI is a product of this;
http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=167096

 

[Azza]

I didn't mind the long narrative. However, the narrative, to me anyways, seems to be of someone full of themselves. I'm a DM with alot more experience that this newbie Instructor. I think I will disrespect him, not follow his instructions, try to show him up to his students and his CD. You seem like a real swell guy.

Well maule, what can I say? I am not full of myself. I had recently moved to this town, this was my first experience with an instructor from this shop, which came highly recommended to me (the shop-not the instructor).
I did have a lot more experience than him but at the time I did not know this.
I had worked with a great team of instructors in my old town, and they never did anything like this and had always displayed exemplary professionalism and diving skills. I had been away from DMing and the whole PADI system for over a year as I was a little burnt out and needed to take time out and challenge my own personal diving.
I was surprised that an instructor would behave like this guy, break standards, compromise safety and generally show ignorance of common sense.

I did follow his instructions and although I did later remove weight from a couple of the students it needed to be done.

Also at no time did I show him up. I pulled him to the side to question his decisions, instead of questioning him in front of the students. Maybe I should have just shut up and let him get on with it but all the other instructors I had worked with previously were quite open to suggestion so I figured he would be as well. I now know better.

We must be reading 2 entirely different stories. He is ready to bail on the class on the very 1st dive cause the instructor overweighed a student. Yea, sounds like a very level headed individual to me. Add to the fact that he is probably bending the story to make himself look a little better and the instructor a little worse.

You seem to be missing the point. It wasnt just that he overweighted a student.
Another factor was that, totally disregarding PADI standards, which we both agreed to follow when we became professionals, he made the students do a free ascent without a reference!
The wee lass he had overweighted had shot to the bottom, as had one of the students I descended with, as she was so overweighted and didnt have the time to clear her ears and recieved a rather bad squeeze. That was why he was on the surface with her for 10 minutes after we had descended.
If a line was used, as per PADI standards, she could have grabbed the line to halt her rapid descent and avoided the severe ear squeeze.
His attitude was also a major factor in me wanting to bail. In the end I stuck it out. I finished the course along with the students, with another Instructor. I also went on to further train a couple of the students when I became an instructor.

Oh and I havnt bent the story, I don't actually see what I did was particularly remarkable at all. I could have told more stories about this guy that would make you cringe, I didnt.

What is the point of telling this story. Did it really help that the new instructor did not ever receive help to become "competent".

He did. His boss, a CD made sure he was team teaching other instructors for a while. By all accounts he is not so bad anymore. He is also a few years older (he was 19 at the time) and maybe a little less bolshy and little more mature.
Now I could have said nothing....but what would we have acheived then? At least this way he got some remedial training.

 

[Azza]

This I do. I don't feel competent to teach someone to dive, but I'm happy to go diving with a novice. I can provide a steady buddy for them to key off of, and at the end of the dive, I can perhaps pass on one or two of the many tips I got from MY mentors. There is a HUGE hole in the diving world between OW education and competent diving, and people like me, for whom this whole thing comes hard, cannot afford to pay an instructor to dive with them for months. Mentors are priceless. And some people are temperamentally suited to do it, and others just aren't.

Good for you Lynne. And Rick and all the others that take divers under their wing to help them.
The industry needs more like you.

 

[Azza]

Forgive me

You are forgiven...

but i think that this is not all about the 100 dives. I think this is a lot to do with how the instructor interpreted the knowledge gained during his 'relatively short' career and how he applied it in his teaching.

Yes i cannot agree with you more that 100DWI is a very low log but nevertheless, this was a lot to do with this chaps personal skills and what he believed was right, not wholly about his 100 dives.

I think you are right to an extent. I have come across a 100DWI that was rather good at teaching OW. Its all about attitude, being able to pass on information and making sure students have fun while learning. I think experience is necessary however as long as an instructor is out diving for fun, he retains his enthusiasm and is constantly working and improving on his skills.

I personally would like to see the standards raised in the IDC and IE.
I felt ripped off at my IE. I put a lot of time and effort into my preperation and it was not of a standard I would have expected. Others who put limited effort in, with limited experience and skills, passed the course and I was just stunned.