Moving up from Cressi Leonardo - suggestions?

[dmaziuk]

I think it may be part of the indoctrination. Yes, if you're diving tables, and you overstay the NDL (and didn't pre-plan for it), then you have to pull out a whole 'nother set of tables and calculate your deco schedule on the slate with your gas going down and your deco obligation going up while you're at it. Of course you did bring them all on your NDL dive, doesn't everyone.

With a computer that is no longer the case -- but I don't think they're teaching it quite that way. Not yet.

 

[stuartv]

No, not at all. Nicely posed question.

NDL divers rabidly seeking the very most aggressive PDC is the issue. It is the mindset.

Just pick something that you can read and comprehend, go into light deco and come back out with the group. Almost all PDC's allow that.

-problem is, deco is on the diver. NDL divers seem (to me) to want the blame solidly placed on something/somebody else.

Okay. I see what you mean. But, two things:

One, I would absolutely NOT advocate that any OW diver go against their training - and OW training (in the U.S.) is clear on not going into deco. Violating that is a VERY slippery slope. Deco does not pile on linearly. Break the NDL a few times and have 3 minutes of deco (no more than an ordinary safety stop). Hey! No big deal! Then suddenly it seems like staying down another 2 minutes next time is no big deal. And then another 2 minutes after that. And get your buddy who has a less conservative computer to do the same thing. It would be VERY easy to end up with more deco obligation than one has gas for. Especially when confidence also extends to staying a little longer AND going a little deeper. Just a *little* deeper and a *little* longer past NDL can turn into a pretty big deco obligation. Meanwhile, the OW diver's training has only prepared them to have an idea of how long they can last with their current gas supply based on a direct ascent. Doing the math to figure out how long their available gas will last when they now have a deco obligation is not something that is covered in OW or AOW training.

Two, if you're going to tell someone to do that, why would you not tell them to get the less conservative computer AND go into light deco? Then they can get even MORE bottom time.

To be clear, I totally disagree with suggesting to any OW diver that they let their computer go into deco so that they can stay down longer - even if it's simply to stay with someone whose computer is giving a longer NDL. I think they are safer if they never break the NDL - even if they are just blindly following their computer.

If you're worried about people blindly obeying their computer, well those people are going to do that whether they have a liberal or conservative computer, so "upgrading" to a more liberal computer isn't going to change them.

 

[Streydog]

Can I ask how you get such low prices from LP? Id like to get a pair of Veos for my wife and I but I only see a price of $350 each.

I put a Geo 2.0 in my "whish List" and a couple days later received an email with an offer to sell it to me for $279.00 I was sent a link, placed the order and had it in about three days.

 

[lowviz]

...//...One, I would absolutely NOT advocate that any OW diver go against their training - and OW training (in the U.S.) is clear on not going into deco. Violating that is a VERY slippery slope. Deco does not pile on linearly. Break the NDL a few times and have 3 minutes of deco (no more than an ordinary safety stop). Hey! No big deal! Then suddenly it seems like staying down another 2 minutes next time is no big deal. And then another 2 minutes after that. And get your buddy who has a less conservative computer to do the same thing. It would be VERY easy to end up with more deco obligation than one has gas for. Especially when confidence also extends to staying a little longer AND going a little deeper. Just a *little* deeper and a *little* longer past NDL can turn into a pretty big deco obligation. ...//...

Understood.

But when I drop into a back bay in the most recreational of situations, in the middle of the night, everything is on me. If I kill myself, there is nobody to blame but me.

US training is the nucleus of the problem. How to get as many people as possible immersed in a medium that will quickly kill them while making them feel totally safe?

Stay out of deco. I'm an elephant, thanks for the feather, I can fly...

 

[gfaith]

<snip>
Learn deco. Go into deco and come out of it conservatively. You can do this for as long as you wish if you have the gas.

You must have been reading my dive log book..

My instructor on my Deep Dive Specialty took lots of time warning us (wife) that we might trickle into deco as we were going to go to 132 ft on dive 3. He showed us the pinky finger deco sign and said we would all do a mandatory 5 minute stop @ 15 ft regardless of deco or not. As we turned at 132 after the testing, I had 1 min left of NDL, then we continued messing around at 90 ft and really slow up to 70 ft. To get to the point, I got to raise my pinky and had about 3 minutes of deco (it cleared quite easily at the Stop). What I took from all this is my Zoop is a little more conservative than my wife's Sherwood, but a small deco obligation should not freak you out. Okay Flame Coat on (high FR rating).

 

[lowviz]

@gfaith . *happy*

Now it is time to learn the finger at the other end. Pointer finger bent. "Question" Begins and ends with that. Use it all the time. Nobody gets freaked, just asking....

 

[lowviz]

One last thing. Get a cheap label maker and a wrist slate. Figure out your rate of gas consumption. Buy yourself a copy of the NOAA Diving Manual. Great reference book. Lots of tables in the back, too.

For each size tank you dive, figure out the pressure that you absolutely positively HAVE to leave the bottom with to get you and your wife back on the boat (including stops) with a couple of hundred psi using your tank alone. You can do the math. Use air tables. One slate for each tank size. Do that for depths in 20' increments from 130 up to 60' or so. Hint: search on Min gas or Rock bottom.

Sounds like a lot of work. Only have to do it once. Grab the slate that fits your dive and you are good to go and in the know.

If everything turns to $hyT, slowly go up to 20' get calm and share everything that you have...

 

[gfaith]

I use Rock Bottom and do the SAC math with different tanks as well.

 

[Derelict]

Good choice with the Geo 2.0. I've had it for 100 hours of diving now and it has been great. I've just upgraded to a Shearwater Perdix (starting to do Tec diving), but my Geo 2.0 will live on as a gauge backup bottom timer.