Moving up from Cressi Leonardo - suggestions?

[CptTightPants21]

Can I ask how you get such low prices from LP? Id like to get a pair of Veos for my wife and I but I only see a price of $350 each.

You submit your price on the price alert button (or call them up). Either your price is accepted or they email you with their offer.

 

[Neilwood]

I always wonder how people know that a "conservative" computer is too conservative.

Do you know (as a fact, not as the numbers a dive computer pumps out) how close you are to DCS given your computers output and body type and conditions? My guess would be no unless you have had a hit or done a lot of training/reading on the subject. Even with that knowledge, there is no guarantee of not getting an undeserved hit (where you are within your computers NDL but still get hit).

Any number of factors can affect your susceptibility to DCS - even the same dive profile with relatively minor changes in conditions (slight dehydration, heat, cold, exertion pre and post dive etc) might mean a hit on a site where you have been good previously.

Did a weeks liveaboard diving on a Cressi Giotto and didn't feel limited by it. That was with decent SI though.

Are you gas limited on a dive or limited by NDL?

 

[dmaziuk]

I always wonder how people know that a "conservative" computer is too conservative.

Simple:

... AOW certified 2 years ago. 29 logged dives. Warm water only

 

[stuartv]

Simple:

Well, I'm lost...

I always wonder how people know that a "conservative" computer is too conservative.

I reckon it's 2 variations on a them. They both start with the diver ending dives because their computer runs out of NDL before the diver gets low on gas.

From there, it's either that the diver sees other divers (e.g. their buddy) having more NDL than they do. Or, they read on the Internet that there are computers that will give them a longer NDL than the one they're using. Or a combination of both.

And they haven't gotten bent and the people they see taking advantage of longer NDLs also aren't getting bent.

 

[lowviz]

I always wonder how people know that a "conservative" computer is too conservative. ...//...

Delicious.

Please allow me to continue where you are going.

One buys a PDC that comes with a proven algorithm. You have to come up first if diving it out of the box. Oh, I can/can't fudge this to stay with the group.

Ooooh, this one lets me fudge. Cool. If anything happens it isn't my fault, my PDC said that it is OK.

Learn deco. Go into deco and come out of it conservatively. You can do this for as long as you wish if you have the gas.

 

[stuartv]

Delicious.

Please allow me to continue where you are going.

One buys a PDC that comes with a proven algorithm. You have to come up first if diving it out of the box. Oh, I can/can't fudge this to stay with the group.

Ooooh, this one lets me fudge. Cool. If anything happens it isn't my fault, my PDC said that it is OK.

Learn deco. Go into deco and come out of it conservatively. You can do this for as long as you wish if you have the gas.

And if another PDC has an equally proven algorithm and consistently gives longer NDLs, how do you know that that "more liberal" computer isn't still very conservative and the other is super duper extra very very conservative? If you think that "more conservative" is always better, why don't you go with the most conservative algorithm, which is to stay on the boat?

Have you ever been bent? If not, then how do you know when one thing is too risky and another is not? If someone were to assert that the conservative computer gives you a 0.000001% chance of getting bent and the liberal computer gives you a 0.000002% chance, could you refute that? Would you still stay that it's meaningful to follow the more conservative computer?

 

[lowviz]

And if another PDC has an equally proven algorithm and consistently gives longer NDLs, how do you know that that "more liberal" computer isn't still very conservative and the other is super duper extra very very conservative? ...//...

Nobody could sell that, doesn't exist.

Have you ever been bent?

Nope. Don't see any reason why I would want to. Stupidly easy to avoid.

If not, then how do you know when one thing is too risky and another is not?

Lawyers and statistics.

If you don't have a PFO or anything else that puts you outside the bell curve, then don't get dehydrated and just dive the all-knowing oracle on your wrist and you will be fine.

If someone were to assert that the conservative computer gives you a 0.000001% chance of getting bent and the liberal computer gives you a 0.000002% chance, could you refute that? Would you still stay that it's meaningful to follow the more conservative computer?

Huh???

The NJ Turnpike on my way to the dive has those stats beat all to hell.

 

[stuartv]

One buys a PDC that comes with a proven algorithm. You have to come up first if diving it out of the box. Oh, I can/can't fudge this to stay with the group.

Ooooh, this one lets me fudge. Cool. If anything happens it isn't my fault, my PDC said that it is OK.

I took these statements to imply that a conservative recreational computer is okay (to you), but buying a less conservative recreational computer, so that you can enjoy longer NDLs, is foolish (by being an abdication of responsibility).

Is that not what you meant? If it IS what you meant, then my last post was my long-winded way of asking what is the fact-based reasoning behind your message?

Personally, I think telling someone to become a tech diver because they want longer NDLs than a computer like a Leonardo gives seems kind of ridiculous. I imagine the OP is going to be very happy with a sub-$300 Geo.

 

[stuartv]

Nobody could sell that, doesn't exist.

I guess that's a subjective judgment and you are entitled to your opinion. By my subjective assessment of it, both kinds of computers that I mentioned do exist and they both seem to sell reasonably well.

 

[lowviz]

I took these statements to imply that a conservative recreational computer is okay (to you), but buying a less conservative recreational computer, so that you can enjoy longer NDLs, is foolish (by being an abdication of responsibility).

Is that not what you meant? ...//...

No, not at all. Nicely posed question.

NDL divers rabidly seeking the very most aggressive PDC is the issue. It is the mindset.

Just pick something that you can read and comprehend, go into light deco and come back out with the group. Almost all PDC's allow that.

-problem is, deco is on the diver. NDL divers seem (to me) to want the blame solidly placed on something/somebody else.