Mounting tanks upside down

[roakey]

Larry,

You mistake frustration for anger.

You're right, devjr explained how the 2nd stage is the reason behind increased breathing resistance when in odd positions.

What I don't know is if you've reexamined your basic premises or not. In other words do you still stand behind:

1) Lowering (or raising) the 1st stage by a couple feet will cause a noticeable change in breathing resistance.

2) Cracking pressure and external pressure can be compared using a 1:1 ratio.

If you still believe either or both of these statements, tell me and I’ll try to explain what’s going on. Or I’m sure Uncle Pug would if you don’t want to hear from me. They’re just too many diving myths out there, one of the many things this board is good at is dispelling them

Roak

 

[Laurence Stein DDS]

Roak,

Ya know. I wasn't going to respond to you anymore because of your attitude problem.

Suddenly, though you got...nicer...you actually asked what I thought. I completely understood devjr's explanation because it was stated in the positive with a logical progression of thought and facts.

When you started on me, you started nasty. I don't take to nasty.

Actually, I'm surprised that you could have been frustrated. You seem to do and say what you want without regard to who is on the receiving end. Simply, telling someone that they shouldn't believe everything they hear is not good enough. You offered no logical reason for what you said. You simply jamed your statements down my throat and offended me. You made yourself, to others who don't know you, an ass.

I'm gonna take UP's explanation that you're just crusty. (an understatement I'm sure.

BTW, I am a divemaster and started diving when I was 7. I'm 53 now. So I don't exactly lack experience.

In answer to your question to my basic premise, I admit that it may not be accurate but is was not YOU who conviced me. In fact you could have told me a thousand times and as far as I was concerned, you were just feeding your ego and me BS.

I meet alot of doctors who think they know everything and put themselves above others. They denigrate their peers, they embarass them and probably derive some sick pleasure from doing so. I ignore them...THEY have a problem.

Ya know, my basic, if flawed statement was that the position of the first and second stages of a regulator made a difference in breathing ease. It was YOU who started with the "noise" and actually unrelated technical mubojumbo. That turned me off very quickly. In addition, you were insulting and no one appreciates that.

Think about what you say to others in the forum. They may be trying to learn something. While I was not correct, you offered absolutely no help. I'm sure you saw the responses and asides from you compatriots. Even they thought you were being unreasonable.

I have one final question for you which I'm sure you can explain...well maybe not! In your photo, are those your tanks or are you just glad to be seen by us? Actually, I can't tell where the tanks stop and you begin!

Reluctantly throwing in the towel,

Larry Stein--let's be friends, OK?

P.S. HOW DO YOU GET A + FILL CHECK ON A PRESSED STEEL 121 TANK? I use one and usually get two complete dives and then some out of it. My other tanks are old Faber 92.6. Filled to 3300 this gives me just over 100 cu.ft.--plenty of bottom time with air to burn if I deco. I had them since 1980 and they are perfect. They are always negative and I only need weight in the winter if I use a wet suit. I keep 4 lbs in the pockets and can ditch this when I want. This winter, I never even put a suit on it was so warm here in Miami.

My dive shop IS a great shop. Before you bad mouth them, remember you haven't been there and seen the operation--so hold your crusty tongue or, as a dentist, I CAN tell you what to do with it!

 

[neil]

Doc,
To get the "+" rating on any tank that has or had one, you need to specifically request that test when you send it in for hydro. The dive shop employee may not know exactly how it's done, but the hydro facility will. Or should. Send it to another if they don't. You don't need to know about elastic expansion tests and K factors to ask for the test. You can expect to pay a couple of bucks extra for it, too. If anyone tells you it's not possible to get the "+" back, they are misinformed. Any tank that had one to begin with can be retested for the "+" at any time.(Unless it's some truly ancient oddball cylinder). It can also pass regular hydro while failing the "+" test.

Roakey,
What is the point of asking how long ago the employee took his PSI training? It's good to have someone around who can do visuals on wooden tanks.

Neil

 

[Laurence Stein DDS]

Thanks Neil,

Both of the shops I use do their own hydros in house. They should know how to do this?

Larry Stein

 

[budgy]

You guys often lose me. I have got a Faber tank, it has a maximum working pressure of 232 bar stamped on the side, which is the limit to which the cylinder is to be filled. There is a test pressure also, but I assume that is a safety margin and a limit for the test station. We are required to get a visual inspection every 2 years and a hydro test every 4.
Anyone care to explain what's a + rating

 

[Walter]

In the US, some steel tanks can get a + stamped beside the hydro date. It allows the tank to be filled to 10% above the stamped working pressure.

 

[budgy]

Hi Walter,
Thanks for the info

 

[neil]

Originally posted by Laurence Stein DDS
Thanks Neil,
Both of the shops I use do their own hydros in house. They should know how to do this?
Larry Stein

Larry,
Absolutely. They must do it all the time.

Neil

 

[Laurence Stein DDS]

Neil,

Thanks for the answer.

Budgy, after my beating by roak, I'm not touching this one!

Larry Stein

 

[budgy]

Hi Larry, don't let the banter bother you, anyone who writes anything, is likely to get some abuse now again. Just remember we all want everyone's input, without it there's no forum. Some of the things said about me on other forums would be erased here. Still made my ears burn, I just turn around and say," Sorry you didn't like it." You guys are really very polite to one another, some of our forums are full of fire breathers.

The postings have been a bit over technical for me. A friend of mine with another club dives with inverted twins, I don't think he gets any problem with his regs using the tanks set up that way, the year before last he dived with upright twin 10's, so if there was something wrong I can't see why he would do it. I have been meaning to ask him to give me go, as I have never tried a twin set or a wing, but setting up the weight belt for a whim seems a bit extreme.
When I lie on my back and look up the reg doesn't breath so good. I hear this doesn't happen with a side exhaust valve reg. If that is true, then the effect may be due to the position of the exhaust valve. You know I am talking about how it feels, not .8 or 9 on some instrument scale