Motion sickness

[DandyDon]

Hehe, I hear you have to wean yourself off a weekend Scop patch. If you remove it before the pump slows down, the sudden withdrawal can be rough.

Interesting drug really. South Americans have long used it to create zombies, and it's commonly used in many crimes - not just in SA. Scopolamine Hallucinogen Mind Control Drug In High Doses Date Rape With Scopolamine

 

[Kevrumbo]

You don't get seasick, do youl Kev?

Actually I always get seasick to some degree. I just learn how to control it, or worst case tolerate the discomfort by only using cognitive technique, imagery & self-hypnosis.

Sometimes though, you're on station anchored or moored at the divesite and gearing up in rough rockin' & rollin' seas, you've got to concentrate on getting your prep & pre-dive routines together before jumping in. In this instance it doesn't matter how good a "mentalist" or addictively medicated you are: You're gonna feel the queaze!:shocked2:

 

[Bubbletrubble]

I am aware of divers here in SoCal who've been using the Scopolamine patch regularly for years and are now finding it less effective for even a day trip, let alone a whole weekend liveaboard offshore. . .

@Kevrumbo: I don't know. I'd probably classify using a patch "regularly for years" as more than occasional use. I wonder if those divers were really experiencing drug tolerance or if the apparent decrease in efficacy could be attributed to issues with delivery (i.e., skin changes where the patch was applied which caused decelerated absorption or accelerated absorption leading to the active drug being used up prematurely). I'd think that it would be pretty straightforward to test for this (take blood samples at intervals after applying the patch, run lab test on blood samples to determine circulating Scop levels, correlate Scop levels with efficacy as reported by subjects). Probably a pretty costly experiment, though.

Interesting drug really. South Americans have long used it to create zombies, and it's commonly used in many crimes - not just in SA. Scopolamine Hallucinogen Mind Control Drug In High Doses Date Rape With Scopolamine

@DandyDon: Snopes.com has a page on burundanga, a plant which contains scopolamine and atropine, two powerful anti-cholinergics. Apparently, there are a few urban legends associated with the plant. It's worth mentioning that scopolamine might not even be the most active ingredient in Haitian zombie cocktails. Some experts think tetrodotoxin (drug that blocks voltage-gated, fast sodium channels in neurons) or some other substance like it is responsible for the delirium induced by such cocktails.

While we're discussing fun facts about scopolamine, here's more historical trivia...
Scopolamine belongs to a class of drugs called the belladonna alkaloids. During the Renaissance, women would dose themselves with crude extracts of belladonna (a.k.a. nightshade) to induce mydriasis (enlargement) of the pupils. At the time, large pupils were associated with feminine beauty. FYI, the active ingredient in belladonna is atropine.
In Ancient Rome, Emperor Augustus was rumored to have been poisoned with atropine by his wife, Livia.

 

[DocVikingo]

I wonder, too, how much the placebo effect contributes to the success of medications and home remedies for motion sickness. I have watched many times someone out on a deep sea fishing trip have an instantaneous recovery from seasickness when someone shoves a rod and reel into their hands with a sailfish on the line.

If the individual given the rod with a sailfish on the line was told that this would cure his mal de mer, and it did, that could be contrued as a placebo effect.

If the individual was simply given the rod with a sailfish on the line and his mal de mer resolved, the responsible psychological mechansim would be contrued as a function of diversion of attention or the like.

There is a psychosomatic component to seasickness.

The argument that motion sickness has psychological components to it can be made, e.g., Psychological Components in the Development and Prevention of Air Sickness,, The psychophysiology of nausea. [Acta Biol Hung. 2002] - PubMed result, Motion sickness.

Regards,

DocVikingo

 

[Jax]

And while we're off topic: atropine is the 'antidote' for nerve agent absorption. I put the " around the 'antidote' because atropine will incapacitate you just like the nerve agent . . . but you may survive . . .

:focus:
Back on the 'decrease of effectiveness of drugs', perhaps the divers are not accounting for increased sensitivity to seasickness as they get older . . .

As for the gearing up stage . . . The meds tend to keep me 'okay' until the boat stops. As long as we're underway, the queasies are under control. As soon as the boat stops and the motion is pure elevate-up-and-down, the fish get fed. This doesn't matter if it is on the boat, or in that 10'-15' below . . . if it's up and down, happy fish!

 

[DocVikingo]

I am aware of divers here in SoCal who've been using the Scopolamine patch regularly for years and are now finding it less effective for even a day trip, let alone a whole weekend liveaboard offshore. . . .

There is no research evidence of which I am aware to suggest that significant tolerance to the anti-motion sickness effects of usual doses scopalomine would be anticipated when taken "regularly for years" for day trips or whole weekend liveaboards.

Regards,

DocVikingo

 

[SelkieDVM]

And while we're off topic: atropine is the 'antidote' for nerve agent absorption. I put the " around the 'antidote' because atropine will incapacitate you just like the nerve agent . . . but you may survive . . .

Every drug has the potential to be toxic. I use atropine on almost a daily basis and to my knowledge have yet to lose a patient to it.

 

[robertarak]

or in that 10'-15' below . . . if it's up and down, happy fish!

Not to self: No gas sharing drills with JAX.

 

[Jax]

Not to self: No gas sharing drills with JAX.

Disgustingly, I am good enough at it to pull my reg, urp, and replace it. Never messed in a reg.

Thought I'd share in case someone thought twice . . .

 

[DandyDon]

Disgustingly, I am good enough at it to pull my reg, urp, and replace it. Never messed in a reg.

Thought I'd share in case someone thought twice . . .

For the record, that is dangerous as there is a risk of inhaling water. Puking thru the reg then purging is safer. Hold breath and rinse once control is established, repurge and go.

I do gas drills the Padi way anyway. The Octo is cleaner in all cases.