Most compact/travel-friendly CCR - Sidewinder, Optima CH or ??

[davehicks]

Speaking as a long time Photographer and CCR diver I get concerned anytime suggests an eCCR is better to reduce task loading when your hands are full with a camera. This is a clear warning sign of impending disaster.

Photography always comes a distant second to safe diving. If the diver does not have the focus, training, and discipline to balance a CCR and anything else they need to take a step back. Being aware of your gauges rather than a camera has to come first.

 

[makar0n]

Speaking as a long time Photographer and CCR diver I get concerned anytime suggests an eCCR is better to reduce task loading when your hands are full with a camera. This is a clear warning sign of impending disaster.

Photography always comes a distant second to safe diving. If the diver does not have the focus, training, and discipline to balance a CCR and anything else they need to take a step back. Being aware of your gauges rather than a camera has to come first.

Dave, with all due respect and apologies in advance if I will sound harsh:

Diving with a solenoid taking care of oxygen injection (aka eCCR) does NOT imply or mean that I do not monitor the PO2, nor that I do not know, nor are capable to act should that part misbehaves. I am really fed up the moment mCCR cowboys crawl up from they hidey holes with an attitude that only "tough" mCCR divers are properly trained, all others are incompetent morons that is going to kill themselves on their "inferior" eCCR units, and of course having a solenoid means "PO2? Whats that?". The only thing missing here is pulling a certain cultist diving organization credentials and then asking "but what about the trim". Though I guess then JJ would get mentioned as the holy grail.

I am not afraid of electronics, and frankly trust them much more than any human capabilities. Humans make mistakes much more often than electronics breaking. And if you do not trust them that much, why use a dive computer then? Do your calculations manually on the fly too, and in freedom units of course
And when I am dragging 3 cylinders, scooter, camera and have to drag an unconscious buddy while deploying an SMB, last thing I now need is having to fiddle with MAV to add that oxygen. With NERD I do not need hands to check my cells. All the time, including seeing them even when I am looking at the camera screen. So why task load myself with more things to do for no particular reason? To take back control? My surname is not Farage I am afraid.
Plus if my solenoid fails (or I decide I want to join the "tough" guys club), I can still dive the eCCR as mCCR. You cannot do the opposite.

Interesting that in this context not having a water trap(s) does not appear to raise any concern safety wise

 

[kensuf]

Folks, what is the most compact or travel-friendly CCR in the market?

I am looking to get one primarily for photography and since this involves travel to a lot of destinations which arent necessarily set up with full tec shops, I need something that is light and travel friendly. Was looking at the Sidewinder or the Optima - the Optima CH seems interesting as it is (a) light and (b) will integrate well with a regular harness. Anything else i should look at?

TIA!

PS: FWIW - am trimix certified from the late 90s, and have tried out a couple of CCRs in the past (WAY in the past) and was supposed to get certified on the Lungfish last year, so am aware of the general caveats, etc.

Hey Vinnie!

Cervelo P5, HED Jet disc wheel on the rear, Jet RC9 on the front. This is what you really want.

Ken

 

[davehicks]

Dave, with all due respect and apologies in advance if I will sound harsh:

Diving with a solenoid taking care of oxygen injection (aka eCCR) does NOT imply or mean that I do not monitor the PO2, nor that I do not know, nor are capable to act should that part misbehaves. I am really fed up the moment mCCR cowboys crawl up from they hidey holes with an attitude that only "tough" mCCR divers are properly trained, all others are incompetent morons that is going to kill themselves on their "inferior" eCCR units, and of course having a solenoid means "PO2? Whats that?". The only thing missing here is pulling a certain cultist diving organization credentials and then asking "but what about the trim". Though I guess then JJ would get mentioned as the holy grail.

I am not afraid of electronics, and frankly trust them much more than any human capabilities. Humans make mistakes much more often than electronics breaking. And if you do not trust them that much, why use a dive computer then? Do your calculations manually on the fly too, and in freedom units of course
And when I am dragging 3 cylinders, scooter, camera and have to drag an unconscious buddy while deploying an SMB, last thing I now need is having to fiddle with MAV to add that oxygen. With NERD I do not need hands to check my cells. All the time, including seeing them even when I am looking at the camera screen. So why task load myself with more things to do for no particular reason? To take back control? My surname is not Farage I am afraid.
Plus if my solenoid fails (or I decide I want to join the "tough" guys club), I can still dive the eCCR as mCCR. You cannot do the opposite.

Interesting that in this context not having a water trap(s) does not appear to raise any concern safety wise

You seem to be hung up on CCR design debates.

What I was trying to point out if the very real phenomenon of "camera blindness". There are plenty of divers I have met that are so hyper focused on their camera and getting the shot that they have no business adding a CCR to the mix. Some of these folks may use the eCCR rationale to justify their tunnel vision which is the standard entry point into the design debate.

I do personally prefer an mCCR, but not for this reason. I just like the simplicity and reliability over the long term. Fewer parts to maintain and no factory service required. For my style and frequency of diving it is a better option. But I see the advantages of eCCR models as well and sometimes miss them.

 

[makar0n]

You seem to be hung up on CCR design debates.

What I was trying to point out if the very real phenomenon of "camera blindness". There are plenty of divers I have met that are so hyper focused on their camera and getting the shot that they have no business adding a CCR to the mix. Some of these folks may use the eCCR rationale to justify their tunnel vision which is the standard entry point into the design debate.

I do personally prefer an mCCR, but not for this reason. I just like the simplicity and reliability over the long term. Fewer parts to maintain and no factory service required. For my style and frequency of diving it is a better option. But I see the advantages of eCCR models as well and sometimes miss them.

Then do raise the "camera blindness" topic as this is certainly a valid and important issue, regardless of a type of rebreather used, and frankly type of diving too. Meanwhile you sound like the usual "let's bash eCCR and question their training" (mCCR ones are immune to this issue apparently). After all they do not know what they are doing, their training sucks and they completely do not pay attention to anything once clinging to the camera - disaster in the making in your own words.

Note also that I have clearly mentioned "hands" in the context of camera and task loading in that sentence - as in no need to bother with MAV since solenoid takes care of that. Nowhere does it say or suggest "to hell with my PO2, lets take photos".

And the way I have it all setup I do not need to use hands to monitor my displays. Hence once I do not have to bother with the MAV button, that gives me quite the freedom with the hands holding the camera, while still being able to monitor everything. And in this regard (i.e. hands-MAV) sorry, but I will take an eCCR any time, why would I want to bother with another manual task for no apparent reason ? This would not make my diving safer in any way nor make me immune to anything. And in regards to simplicity and reliability, CMF needs some love too. Like any device really.
Hence I do not see anything wrong with expressing this opinion, with an explanation, especially that I state "I have" and not that this is must follow and obey thing. Nor I assume that OP has no clue about anything, and best he chooses mCCR otherwise disaster will strike.

Reducing task loading (by letting solenoid take care of oxygen levels) does not equal to not monitoring your PO2 (or any other parameters for that matter) and acting appropriately when required. Nor does it mean that eCCR diver is a helpless **** once his solenoid develops an issue.
It does not matter what you dive if you do not pay attention.

 

[davehicks]

Meanwhile you sound like the usual "let's bash eCCR and question their training" (mCCR ones are immune to this issue apparently).

You are ranting about what you imagine I might think, not about what I said. I even clarified what I think you still feel the need to lecture.

Clearly you feel strongly about this topic, but kindly keep your bullhorn pointed away from my general direction please!

 

[makar0n]

You are ranting about what you imagine I might think, not about what I said. I even clarified what I think you still feel the need to lecture.

Clearly you feel strongly about this topic, but kindly keep your bullhorn pointed away from my general direction please!

Och no, but I do feel strongly about certain mindsets. But I certainly shall oblige.

 

[vkalia]

Hey Vinnie!

Cervelo P5, HED Jet disc wheel on the rear, Jet RC9 on the front. This is what you really want.

Ken

My wife is making grumbling noises about adding an SL8 to her Aethos - and she actually wins races, unlike my fat ass. Although the new S5 is certainly calling my name!

Btw, I followed your advice and reached out for the Choptima training to Marc Crane in Bali - who's also recommended the FX-CCR as another alternative.

 

[vkalia]

I do personally prefer an mCCR, but not for this reason. I just like the simplicity and reliability over the long term. Fewer parts to maintain and no factory service required. For my style and frequency of diving it is a better option. But I see the advantages of eCCR models as well and sometimes miss them.

What is the difference in factory servicing requirements for eCCR vs mCCR, may I ask? I have always been under the impression that a lot of the sensors of eCCRs can be user serviced/replaced. Is this specific to certain models or the group as a whole?

 

[davehicks]

What is the difference in factory servicing requirements for eCCR vs mCCR, may I ask? I have always been under the impression that a lot of the sensors of eCCRs can be user serviced/replaced. Is this specific to certain models or the group as a whole?

eCCR units have electronics, solenoids, batteries, maybe Co2 or Scrubber sensors, and the associated wiring harness and data bus to connect to the computer. Some units have proprietary computers as well. As a result, it is very common that the owner needs to send the "head unit" containing much of that gear to a service center should anything go wrong. Plus, some units recommend service intervals requiring inspection every 12 months or 100 hours. XCCR for one example. (FAQs | X-CCR)

mCCR units don't typically have any of that stuff. You have the same O2 sensors, but they are analog with a simple wire harness that usually connects to an off the shelf Shearwater Petrel. There is nothing about the unit that you can not service yourself. A couple of 1st stage regulators, 2nd stages, tubes and o-rings. It's possible to DIY the thing 100% by yourself.

(Shearwater computer excluded, but you can just swap that out if dies and send it for service. May apply to both eCCR and mCCR)