More experience = Less weight

[TMHeimer]

With 7 mil farmer john wetsuit, AL80 tank, I used 41 pounds as a newbie-includes the 5 lbs. added at start to compensate for when tank gets lighter. A few months later I took AOW and for the P.P. Buoyancy dive my instructor said I was way overweighted. I disagreed. Did a weight check and he was amazed (as was I, actually) to find I was right. Later I completed the PP Buoyancy course. Presently (6 yrs. after these classes) I still use 41 pounds. I can hover horizontally forever at will. I guess I'm an exception to the "less weight as you get experience"? Perhaps my breathing just hasn't improved? To be honest, I've never been exactly sure what breathing or experience has to do with it--yes I use beathing to control minor depth differences, etc. How does it really affect weighting? You do a wt. check and that's it, no? If you don't quite have enough weight to start off you'll really struggle at a safety stop. Better breathing or more experience would help with that?

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I was talking about my weighting one of the instructors at my lds the other day and he told me that as I gain more experience, I won't need to use as much weight as i currently use.

I know I'm still pretty much a noob, but I'm having trouble wrapping my head around this, because:

1. I'm about 135lb, 7mm semidry, 6# ss backplate and 15# ditchable weight, ally 80 tank.

2. I can easily swim up my rig with an empty wing.

3. When I did a test with 18# total weight, i could not sink at all even with an empty bc and fully exhaling.

What am I missing here?

You are missing the fact that this is a SPORT. Apparently your instructor has not yet taught you how us experts keep score in this sport (it can't be a sport without keeping score you know).

There are two primary point scoring opportunities. The first is most definitely your air consumption rate. The lower the better. Get it down to something equivalent to that of a sleeping anorexic and you are a freaking hero. Next category is weight, carrying zero ditchable lead will elevate your competitive position to being on par with a typical PADI Instructor! It's definitely worth the effort to get that ballast down to the last gram; going over or cheating and slipping a few fishing weights in your BC pocket will make you as popular as a cheater at a Cub Scout Pine Wood Derby. The judges WILL bring accurate scales, so don't try using mis-marked lead weights either! The potential embarrassment is just not worth the glory.

Now don't overlook the opportunities to earn bonus points.. they can be earned for appropriate hand and arm placement, just like they taught you in chorus in elementary school.. we want them held in a relaxed manner in front of you, preferably with one hand delicately cradling the other.

Another supplemental source is kicking points.. gotta be frog and when the judges are awarding points, it really helps to do a little swimming in reverse.. Even if you accidentally kick you buddy in the face, reverse swimming (with proper trim, of course) is sure to catch the judges eye. Remember, a mis-placed kick is simply an opportunity for your buddy to accumulate a few extra points for a clean, mask clear demo. You are part of a team, so please! -- go the extra mile to make your buddy look good too.

Lastly a tip.. Don't let any of the other divers offer you a carbonated beverage before a dive. Just say NO!. Even though the CO2 bubbles will be somewhat compressed at depth, any gas within your GI tract will be a major hindrance when you compete at the higher levels of this sport.

Happy diving and lose the lead, there is always room for improvement!

 

[ScoobaChef]

There are many factors but a lot of times, newbie divers don't know what they are doing wrong. Like finning up while trying to release gas n go down. Hyperventilating and inability to stay calm.

However, no matter what you can't beat the laws of physics. If you are underweighted there is no way you can sink.

Put a couple more pounds and try this. It's called the dead man's drop. Dump all the air, close your eyes, stop moving n go limp. If you are completely limp, have closed your eyes and still can't go under, you are underweight.

A lot of times the more experience divers say they need less n less weight, well it's true they are more relax but also a lot of their gear is pretty well used but often they have some special techniques lol. Wetsuit is less buoyant due to compression after some time, bcd is well used and like an old backpack, the padding is pretty much gone. I remembered seeing this and wondering why they did it. A lot of dm I knew used to soak their bcd in water before tanking up, I now realize that it's makes the cam bands more secure but also removes a lot of residual air in the bcd.

Cheers

Definitely gonna try out the dead man's drop next time I'm out, be interesting to see what slight weight changes do to my buoyancy.

laws of physics aside, he probably was just talking about as my (shiny new) equipment gets broken in, it won't be as buoyant as it is now.

---------- Post added November 21st, 2012 at 02:20 PM ----------

You are missing the fact that this is a SPORT. Apparently your instructor has not yet taught you how us experts keep score in this sport (it can't be a sport without keeping score you know).

There are two primary point scoring opportunities. The first is most definitely your air consumption rate. The lower the better. Get it down to something equivalent to that of a sleeping anorexic and you are a freaking hero. Next category is weight, carrying zero ditchable lead will elevate your competitive position to being on par with a typical PADI Instructor! It's definitely worth the effort to get that ballast down to the last gram; going over or cheating and slipping a few fishing weights in your BC pocket will make you as popular as a cheater at a Cub Scout Pine Wood Derby. The judges WILL bring accurate scales, so don't try using mis-marked lead weights either! The potential embarrassment is just not worth the glory.

Now don't overlook the opportunities to earn bonus points.. they can be earned for appropriate hand and arm placement, just like they taught you in chorus in elementary school.. we want them held in a relaxed manner in front of you, preferably with one hand delicately cradling the other.

Another supplemental source is kicking points.. gotta be frog and when the judges are awarding points, it really helps to do a little swimming in reverse.. Even if you accidentally kick you buddy in the face, reverse swimming (with proper trim, of course) is sure to catch the judges eye. Remember, a mis-placed kick is simply an opportunity for your buddy to accumulate a few extra points for a clean, mask clear demo. You are part of a team, so please! -- go the extra mile to make your buddy look good too.

Lastly a tip.. Don't let any of the other divers offer you a carbonated beverage before a dive. Just say NO!. Even though the CO2 bubbles will be somewhat compressed at depth, any gas within your GI tract will be a major hindrance when you compete at the higher levels of this sport.

Happy diving and lose the lead, there is always room for improvement!

DD,

you bring up some very good points!

I have been working very hard to get my SAC levels down to an appropriatly impressive level. I'm currently down to .001 and at rest can actually absorb the needed oxygen directly from the water. However, to avoid intimidating the other divers, I still have to lug around that annoying cylinder.
it certainly wouldn't do to perform a 40 minute dive with just a spare air.

i'm thinking that perhaps I could just switch to an hp100 and fill it with water to enable me to eliminate all evidence of extra weight. Do the judges weigh and inspect cylinders as well?

i also had a lot of trouble keeping my arms in the scuba approved position, so before descending I have my buddy firmly tie my hands to my crotch strap with cave line and confiscate my knife so I won't be tempted to cheat.

also, when I kick my buddy's mask of with a properly trimmed helicopter kick, do I get bonus points if I snag his reg with the same shot?

Thank you for your expert wisdom, I feel truly humbled now. :worship:

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Definitely gonna try out the dead man's drop next time I'm out, be interesting to see what slight weight changes do to my buoyancy.

laws of physics aside, he probably was just talking about as my (shiny new) equipment gets broken in, it won't be as buoyant as it is now.

---------- Post added November 21st, 2012 at 02:20 PM ----------



DD,

you bring up some very good points!

I have been working very hard to get my SAC levels down to an appropriatly impressive level. I'm currently down to .001 and at rest can actually absorb the needed oxygen directly from the water. However, to avoid intimidating the other divers, I still have to lug around that annoying cylinder.
it certainly wouldn't do to perform a 40 minute dive with just a spare air.

i'm thinking that perhaps I could just switch to an hp100 and fill it with water to enable me to eliminate all evidence of extra weight. Do the judges weigh and inspect cylinders as well?

i also had a lot of trouble keeping my arms in the scuba approved position, so before descending I have my buddy firmly tie my hands to my crotch strap with cave line and confiscate my knife so I won't be tempted to cheat.

also, when I kick my buddy's mask of with a properly trimmed helicopter kick, do I get bonus points if I snag his reg with the same shot?

Thank you for your expert wisdom, I feel truly humbled now. :worship:

EXCELLENT SAC rate.. you should investigate anal respiration. When you get down to that level, it is one of the few improvements you can make...

Here's a link incase you think I am blowing smoke...

Google Answers: Can turtles breathe out of their butts?

 

[ScoobaChef]

EXCELLENT SAC rate.. you should investigate anal respiration. When you get down to that level, it is one of the few improvements you can make...

Here's a link incase you think I am blowing smoke...

Google Answers: Can turtles breathe out of their butts?

That is brilliant!

I imagine that you'd have to modify your regulator somewhat though. Do you know if BoulderJohn still has that wetsuit with the built in rear dump?

now I understand why you recommend staying away from carbonated beverages before a dive. All that excess CO2 in your rectum could easily result in hypercarbia!

 

[BRT]

While I agree that too much weight is a bad thing I don't think it compares to too little weight if you end up trying to do a safety stop with a tank that is lighter than you have ever seen because it only has 300# in it. Remember that when this happens you are also likely to be close to your no deco limits...you did just breathe all that air. At that point you don't want to be swimming feet up to stay down. Shouldn't happen? Yeah. But if it never happened why are we saving that last 500#? At some point you have to tell all the people who believe the solution to all problems is removing weight to take a leap. Am I experienced? Not really but I have been diving for over 25 years and my overweighted wife and I ran our divemaster out of air more than once last year in Mexico. If it is hard to stay down you use more air.

 

[Bob DBF]

I was going to put in my thoughts, but I need to regain my composure after reading dumpsterDiver and ScoobaChef. Hope I remember what my point was, but they probably have it covered.



Bob
-----------------------------
I may be old, but I'm not dead yet.

 

[ScoobaChef]

Bob,

Anal respiration + warhammer maneuver....

and you thought puking in your reg was bad!:shocked2:

 

[SangP]

Bob,

Anal respiration + warhammer maneuver....

and you thought puking in your reg was bad!:shocked2:

Don't let these old farts lead you to the gross side, if they can't win u on sac or buoyancy skills or anything of value they'll beat you out on gross lol!

Yup don't drink coke underwater cus if you fart you'll be like a scooter lol!

 

[shmuggy]

I wouldn't worry too much about this weighting issue as you are not now carrying what would be an excessive amount of weight on you. The problem is if you do not have enough weight going down you will use more air than needed to descend and then at the end of the dive, it will be harder to maintain the 15' at the safety stop. You should find what amount of weighting you are comfortable with throughout the dive and not worry about it. You can always lighten up on future dives.