Monkey Diving - DIR ?

[TSandM]

Hey, you guys . . . Can I offer the possibility that monkey diving isn't DIR, but it's fun? And that, from time to time, even DIR divers can throw caution to the winds in 20 feet of water, in a pod of dolphins, and do something that comes close to the physical freedom and elegance underwater that we all basically crave?

When I dive deeper than a simple ascent and with buddies, I am DIR to the core . . . As much as I understand, and as much as I can execute. But I can clearly see the attraction and the place for hijinks in shallow water. I've seen the Red Sea videos. I'd play with that in a minute, and I would not in any way criticize one of my DIR buddies for doing the same. In water we can all free-dive through, and not executing a dive as a unified team, does it really matter how we play? Would you get equally exercised if I used an X-scooter to make a snorkelling and free-diving play session more fun?

Lighten up. There are bigger fish to fry.

 

[LAJim]

I am 200lbs, Monkey diving with an AL80 I can scooter past a 150lbs guy in a DIR single tank rig like he is standing still.

Cheers

Ben

Any 16 year old in a Camarro can blow past me in one of my Prius hybrids, but that doesn't make him a better or safer driver. In one phase of my life I drove ambulances and fire trucks at high speed on iced-over mountain roads because I had to and was trained to, and I made it look good. I saved a life once by jumping an ambulance over a creek one night-and I did it by the book. Hot-dogging BS has zero impact on me. I'm not impressed. Been there - done that - for a reason. Diving is about something else. Zen thing maybe.

 

[onfloat]

Streamlining. With the 80 tucked in it's slick.

Tobin

Oh, don't say slick. Next thing well be talking about shrink wrapping dry suits, and how we can't get downtown while monkey diving on toy scooters.

 

[Ben_ca]

Not DIR... But Fun.

That's all that is to it. I agree with Lynne... let's move on

 

[cool_hardware52]

Some interesting responses so far.

It seems like those who have posted a response seem to all agree that "Monkey Diving" is not considered DIR.

It was agreed long before you started this poll. From "Cove Tour thread that this thread split from:

This so called Monkey rig is also not DIR

post 12 2/10/2007

Monkey diving is just a perversion of DIR, promoted by the gang at 5th.d-X.

post 17 2/11/2007

Chris,

"Monkey Diving" is not DIR, no question about it. It's also not as you describe. I'd be happy to relate what I know about it if anybody is interested. The DPV forum might be a better venue.

Tobin

post 19 2/12/2007

I have to wonder what you hoped to accomplish with this poll. Start a poll based on a question that has largely been answered in a forum that virtually assures a an ego stoking audience. Strange and oddly desperate.

It's curious that the poll results show that several people believe that "Monkey Diving" is considered DIR. However, none have actively posted the reasons why they believe it is.

I have no control over the poll, for all I know the three who voted yes are you, Phil and Milo......... I haven't voted in a what I see as a "rigged" poll

At least one person, Tobin, has suggested that "Monkey Diving" can be incorporated into the DIR system.

No I did not. Again here we have another case of you mis characterizing my statements.

I said

Monkey diving is not DIR, no doubt, and I'll not argue that it is, but many of the same principles can be applied.

He points out that many of the issues surrounding DPV diving are orthogonal to "Monkey Diving" and already have well known solutions in the DIR diving.

Again I did no such thing. I pointed out that many of the keystones of DIR diving can easily be incorporated in to "Monkey Diving". Do you think the readership has not read my posts?

He also presents a competing configuration that starts to look very similar to a standard singles rig.

This I do agree with. The Monkey diving rig we have developed is very similar to a conventional "Hogarthian" rig.

So perhaps Tobin can elaborate more on this. Why would a DIR diver choose to scooter in such a configuration versus a standard singles rig?

Ben has already replied specifically to this very question. The key benefit is less drag. Streamlined, low drag configurations are also consistent with the DIR approach as I understand it.

Ancillary benefits include a very compact lightweight rig that transports easily. Given that "monkey diving" is often done in warm, sunny, unlimited vis, locales. A small easily transported rig is a plus. The ballast of a backplate is often unnecessary in these warm water locales.

Please quantify the benefits of being "streamlined/slick" that would justify the gear change.

Did you not understand Ben's answer? Less drag = more speed. Pretty simple. If more speed is of no interest, you need not consider monkey diving.

riguerin, I answered all your questions. Now do me the favor of responding to mine.

Repeatedly I've asked what problems you or other see with the configuration I suggest. To be clear, it includes a small BC, balanced rig, Slung 80 with primary and bungeed back up, can light if the conditions require it.

Other than finger pointing and name calling there has been no feature specific critic of this configuration.

What problems do you see, and how would such a configuration prevent divers from adhering to the DIR philosophy?

Tobin

 

[riguerin]

Hey, you guys . . . Can I offer the possibility that monkey diving isn't DIR, but it's fun? And that, from time to time, even DIR divers can throw caution to the winds in 20 feet of water, in a pod of dolphins, and do something that comes close to the physical freedom and elegance underwater that we all basically crave?

Lynn,

I can certainly appreciate the concept of "Fun". If you knew me, you'd know I'm all about having fun ... safe fun. I've lived my entire life in pursuit of a free, loose style. I express it in passionately in the way I surf, snowboard and dive.

I have to agree with you that scootering looks really really really fun. I'm seeing more and more X-Scooters and N-19 every weekend at my local dive hole (Shaw's Cove). This form of diving certainly appeals to me.

However, let's be careful not to blur the lines here. We're talking about a specific form of scootering. If you look closely at the aforeposted video clip, the sequence does not appear to be exclusively shot in 20 ft shallows. In fact, some of the sequences depict "Monkey Divers" skirting a steep wall. Maybe it's just a camera trick, but it does appear that the bottom is much deeper than 20 ft.

What about "Monkey Divers" in this clip. They are shown entering an overhead environment. Are they also in 20 ft ? The caption says "Devil's Throat"... that's more like 120 ft, right ? Do you think the fun line has been crossed here ?

 

[riguerin]

It was agreed long before you started this poll. From "Cove Tour thread that this thread split from:

post 12 2/10/2007

post 17 2/11/2007

post 19 2/12/2007

I have to wonder what you hoped to accomplish with this poll. Start a poll based on a question that has largely been answered in a forum that virtually assures a an ego stoking audience. Strange and oddly desperate.



I have no control over the poll, for all I know the three who voted yes are you, Phil and Milo......... I haven't voted in a what I see as a "rigged" poll



No I did not. Again here we have another case of you mis characterizing my statements.

I said





Again I did no such thing. I pointed out that many of the keystones of DIR diving can easily be incorporated in to "Monkey Diving". Do you think the readership has not read my posts?



This I do agree with. The Monkey diving rig we have developed is very similar to a conventional "Hogarthian" rig.



Ben has already replied specifically to this very question. The key benefit is less drag. Streamlined, low drag configurations are also consistent with the DIR approach as I understand it.

Ancillary benefits include a very compact lightweight rig that transports easily. Given that "monkey diving" is often done in warm, sunny, unlimited vis, locales. A small easily transported rig is a plus. The ballast of a backplate is often unnecessary in these warm water locales.



Did you not understand Ben's answer? Less drag = more speed. Pretty simple. If more speed is of no interest, you need not consider monkey diving.

riguerin, I answered all your questions. Now do me the favor of responding to mine.

Repeatedly I've asked what problems you or other see with the configuration I suggest. To be clear, it includes a small BC, balanced rig, Slung 80 with primary and bungeed back up, can light if the conditions require it.

Other than finger pointing and name calling there has been no feature specific critic of this configuration.

What problems do you see, and how would such a configuration prevent divers from adhering to the DIR philosophy?

Tobin

Damn Tobin, you sound like the Spanish Inquisition ... chill out, bro

I'm really new at this and am merely here to learn. Let me sleep on it and get back to you tomorrow, m'kay.

BTW ... For the record, I voted "NO" as I'm positive the others you have accused have. :shakehead

 

[cool_hardware52]

Any piece of gear, or gear configuration, can be used with caution and prudence, or without.

A "monkey diving" rig does not require one be irresponsible. As always that is ultimately the choice of the user.

Tobin

 

[TSandM]

Riguerin, that video clip is a promotional piece by a Cozumel dive op, promoting diving there after Wilma. It shows divers with the "monkey diving" configuration at what clearly is depth. Those divers have made choices to dive this way. It is not DIR. I would not dive at that depth when configured that way, or in the fashion depicted. But I'm not very secure at 120 feet, either.

On the other hand, I would happily dive with any of the divers depicted in that video, if we discussed things ahead of time, and agreed we'd dive as a DIR team. I have had the good fortune to dive with Joe, and I will tell you that I would trust him on any dive I'm capable of doing, up to and pushing the limits of what I feel safe to try. We'd be on the same wavelength.

When you have the skills and experience that those people have, you may feel far more carefree and adventurous at 120 feet than I do. If they are happy with what they are doing together, why should you or I criticize it? If ANY of them -- Andrew, Delia or Joe -- does a DIR dive with us, they will do a DIR dive. They will do it well, and safely, and rationally, and be there for us in any conceivable malfunction. What they do amongst themselves in such situations as the video is up to them. It's not DIR. Does that mean THEY aren't?

 

[Hoosier]

Just out of curiosity, does it really matter what someone says if it is DIR or not even though it is fun to ask or poll?