Monetization of the new diver and how it adversely affects the activity

[2airishuman]

To be sure, I sympathize with the plight of the LDS owner. Nobody goes into dive retail because they are businesspeople looking for a hot market with easy money. People go into dive retail because they love diving and want to find a way to make diving their day job.

From what I have seen, it is not possible for LDSs to make enough money from established divers to stay in business. The established diver is going to obtain air fills, service, and very occasional upgrades or replacement of gear. They may book some dive travel through the LDS. These are all low-margin parts of the business.

LDSs have to turn to the new diver to make enough money to pay the mortgage and to afford new vinyl flooring in the kitchen. They do this by selling classes and by selling gear. It's about revenue and selling as much gear as they can for the highest price possible.

The first and most obvious problem is that all this makes diving an unnecessarily expensive hobby, particularly so for families where everyone dives.

The more subtle problem is it poses a conflict of interest that results in safety information and diving advice being polluted by sales efforts. So we have, for example, the PADI OWD course having a section on dive bags and why you, the new diver, really ought to have a good dive bag rather than repurposing whatever you've got or getting an $18 mesh duffel on ebay. And we have $1000+ reg sets. And we have jacket BCs which owe some of their ongoing popularity to the fact that they are sold in multiple sizes and have to be tried on for fit. And we have overpriced masks that aren't as good as the cheap ones.

This sort of thing hinders progress and it particularly makes it hard for diving to evolve towards minimalist configurations. I really like my freediving wetsuits because they are warm. They are also inexpensive and easy to fit. No LDS will sell them (aside from a few that cater to spearos). Why would they when doing so would cut into their sales of more expensive suits? We also see a lack of emphasis on things like proper hose lengths because there isn't meaningful revenue and it complicates the sales cycle.

But worst of all, it makes new divers and those considering diving feel like a mark in many cases. It leaves people jaded and turns them off to the sport. And then, gear sold, it leaves too many divers isolated and without mentorship opportunities once they have purchased all their gear and are no longer a possible source of revenue to the LDS.

 

[northernone]

When our first experience with the sport is being sheared as a sheep it's unpleasant... I've experienced it's attempt in dozens of shops. I'd guess high 80%.

I dearly love those shop owners who will listen to my needs and suggest a sensible solution, not the highest profit margin product.

Apparently I don't have the bristly old salt look yet at 29 so I'm a classic mark when I walk in the door.

Edit: asked a buddy about it, her reply: "If someone is going to be fleeced as a new diver, allow them to enjoy it. That's the free market. Let the buyer beware."

Regards,
Cameron

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I think there's an inherent conflict of interest in the scuba business model. Most dive instruction comes through dive shops, which often puts pressure on the scuba instructor to not only hawk the store's gear, but also to complete the diver's education as quickly and inexpensively as possible. This often doesn't work out in the student's best interest ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[stuartv]

I said this in another recent thread: My dive shop has (I think) the lowest cost OW and other training classes in the DC metro area. And they tell me that training is a profit center for the shop. They (we? I guess) sell gear at Internet-compatible prices. And offer in-house service for everything from regs to hydros.

I think the modern Age of Information has put an end to the days of selling scuba gear at high margins. And even of selling trips at high margins. Today's primary commodity is service. Selling training and equipment maintenance is where any shop is going to make it or go broke. Selling gear is just GOING to be low margin or it won't happen at all (in enough volume to keep a shop in business). Selling trips is generally going to be low margin or, again, it just won't happen. People can read up here on SB about places to go and who and how to dive when they get there. They don't NEED a shop to do that for them. They could maybe just use the shop to do the legwork of getting things booked, etc., and being some level of concierge. That's not something most people will pay a huge margin for. But, running trips, even at a low margin, is important because it stokes the fires for people to get continuing education and buy gear.

So, I agree that it's mostly about new divers, but it doesn't have to be about selling gear at high margins. And, I think shops that rely on selling gear at high margins are not going to last.

 

[Wookie]

To be sure, I sympathize with the plight of the LDS owner. Nobody goes into dive retail because they are businesspeople looking for a hot market with easy money. People go into dive retail because they love diving and want to find a way to make diving their day job.

From what I have seen, it is not possible for LDSs to make enough money from established divers to stay in business. The established diver is going to obtain air fills, service, and very occasional upgrades or replacement of gear. They may book some dive travel through the LDS. These are all low-margin parts of the business.

LDSs have to turn to the new diver to make enough money to pay the mortgage and to afford new vinyl flooring in the kitchen. They do this by selling classes and by selling gear. It's about revenue and selling as much gear as they can for the highest price possible.

The first and most obvious problem is that all this makes diving an unnecessarily expensive hobby, particularly so for families where everyone dives.

The more subtle problem is it poses a conflict of interest that results in safety information and diving advice being polluted by sales efforts. So we have, for example, the PADI OWD course having a section on dive bags and why you, the new diver, really ought to have a good dive bag rather than repurposing whatever you've got or getting an $18 mesh duffel on ebay. And we have $1000+ reg sets. And we have jacket BCs which owe some of their ongoing popularity to the fact that they are sold in multiple sizes and have to be tried on for fit. And we have overpriced masks that aren't as good as the cheap ones.

This sort of thing hinders progress and it particularly makes it hard for diving to evolve towards minimalist configurations. I really like my freediving wetsuits because they are warm. They are also inexpensive and easy to fit. No LDS will sell them (aside from a few that cater to spearos). Why would they when doing so would cut into their sales of more expensive suits? We also see a lack of emphasis on things like proper hose lengths because there isn't meaningful revenue and it complicates the sales cycle.

But worst of all, it makes new divers and those considering diving feel like a mark in many cases. It leaves people jaded and turns them off to the sport. And then, gear sold, it leaves too many divers isolated and without mentorship opportunities once they have purchased all their gear and are no longer a possible source of revenue to the LDS.

I have nothing to add here.

 

[stuartv]

I do have to say that there are exceptions that, I think, succeed specifically and only because of the personalities involved.

There is another local shop that I like to go to just to visit them. The owners and staff are all awesome people. I like going there to just to hang out and chew the fat. They operate in the opposite way to "my" shop. They sell gear at MAP and don't haggle or discount. Their OW class costs about twice as much as the OW class at my shop. They do run a fair number of trips and with a low margin. And their fills and equipment service is generally fairly low priced.

They stay busy. I think they pretty much run at capacity. Meaning, they don't have enough instructors or pool time to do more training or trips than they are already doing. And they sell LOTS of their OW students full kits of gear (at MAP prices).

But, the reason I think they are having success is 90% down to the one shop owner that is there running the shop all the time. He is super friendly and nice. He is almost always there at the shop greeting customers and treating brand new faces in just as friendly a manner as the regulars. I think his personality is what fosters the loyalty to the shop that so many of his customers feel. As well as really good training, I assume. I haven't trained with them other than taking Solo from their tech instructor. But, from the many conversations I've had, I get the impression they produce very competent and confident new divers. I think all of that is why people don't mind spending the money to buy their gear from him, even though they could get it cheaper elsewhere. Plus, his higher initial price tends to screen out the really budget-conscious people in the first place.

However, I think, ultimately, his is somewhat of a boutique model and will never scale to making the shop really big or making a LOT of money. And, if he were to ever turn over the shop to being run on a day to day basis by someone else, I think shop revenues would plummet within just a few months.

 

[Marie13]

With social media, it's not that difficult to find dive buddies unless your location is one without a lot of divers. My belief is that if you can't find buddies you simply aren't trying - unless you're in a location without other divers.

I'm spoiled by my excellent LDS and instructors, though.

 

[REVAN]

To be sure, I sympathize with the plight of the LDS owner. Nobody goes into dive retail because they are businesspeople looking for a hot market with easy money. People go into dive retail because they love diving and want to find a way to make diving their day job.

From what I have seen, it is not possible for LDSs to make enough money from established divers to stay in business. The established diver is going to obtain air fills, service, and very occasional upgrades or replacement of gear. They may book some dive travel through the LDS. These are all low-margin parts of the business.

LDSs have to turn to the new diver to make enough money to pay the mortgage and to afford new vinyl flooring in the kitchen. They do this by selling classes and by selling gear. It's about revenue and selling as much gear as they can for the highest price possible.

The first and most obvious problem is that all this makes diving an unnecessarily expensive hobby, particularly so for families where everyone dives.

The more subtle problem is it poses a conflict of interest that results in safety information and diving advice being polluted by sales efforts. So we have, for example, the PADI OWD course having a section on dive bags and why you, the new diver, really ought to have a good dive bag rather than repurposing whatever you've got or getting an $18 mesh duffel on ebay. And we have $1000+ reg sets. And we have jacket BCs which owe some of their ongoing popularity to the fact that they are sold in multiple sizes and have to be tried on for fit. And we have overpriced masks that aren't as good as the cheap ones.

This sort of thing hinders progress and it particularly makes it hard for diving to evolve towards minimalist configurations. I really like my freediving wetsuits because they are warm. They are also inexpensive and easy to fit. No LDS will sell them (aside from a few that cater to spearos). Why would they when doing so would cut into their sales of more expensive suits? We also see a lack of emphasis on things like proper hose lengths because there isn't meaningful revenue and it complicates the sales cycle.

But worst of all, it makes new divers and those considering diving feel like a mark in many cases. It leaves people jaded and turns them off to the sport. And then, gear sold, it leaves too many divers isolated and without mentorship opportunities once they have purchased all their gear and are no longer a possible source of revenue to the LDS.

So, what are you going to do about this???

 

[Landau]

I have never felt pressure from my LDS to purchase gear. The only 3 sales pitches I remember are:

1) From my original open water instructor at the conclusion of the course: “If you are thinking of getting your own gear, I’d recommend a computer as the first purchase”

2) When I was purchasing a regulator “Do you need a BCD too?”

3) When I was complaining about getting the same rental drysuit with a leak in the arm a few times in a row: “How are we going to get you to buy a drysuit if the rentals are always perfect?” delivered wit a big laugh. At that point I had already ordered a drysuit and they were giving me free rentals until it arrived.

 

[2airishuman]

So, what are you going to do about this???

Wave my magick wand now that I see that most people agree it's a problem.