Moderation: Too much or too little?

[HowardE]

When the OP accuses a moderator of attacking him ... which in this case, she was doing no such thing ... and tells her she should step down as a moderator ... wouldn't you consider that it's the OP who's violating the "Green Zone"?

In this case, I would ... because his post was not on topic, and was ... in fact ... an attack on that moderator.

Edit ... ah, I see a bunch of posts have been pulled from that thread, including this person's attack on the moderator. And I can see the point in protecting newer divers ... but a newer diver should not be able to abuse that special protection to make accusations and moan about imaginary slights every time someone disagrees with him ... particularly if he's in the habit of posting strong opinions. And SB staff shouldn't make a habit of enabling that sort of behavior. Scuba diving's very much about accepting responsibility for your decisions and actions, and that needs to extend to how people post here ... regardless of their experiential status.

Someone who posts strong opinions should be able to back up their statements or face an honest critique of what they've posted without either taking it personally or getting personal with those who disagree with him.

I can be really patient with newer divers ... and I try to be. But I am losing my margin for giving this particular poster the benefit of the doubt ... I'm starting to think this is some little game on his part to garner attention.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

It appears that Cave Diver answered your question.

Yes?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

It appears that Cave Diver answered your question.

Yes?

No.

Although John is usually very good at addressing my questions, in this case he left me wondering why he quoted me at all. I'm asking about how the behavior of one "protected" member affects board policy and the moderation of other members ... and he is talking about the process that went into deciding why to remove smilies. If there's a connection, I'm not seeing it.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Quero]

When the OP accuses a moderator of attacking him ... which in this case, she was doing no such thing ... and tells her she should step down as a moderator ... wouldn't you consider that it's the OP who's violating the "Green Zone"?

In this case, I would ... because his post was not on topic, and was ... in fact ... an attack on that moderator.

No.

Although John is usually very good at addressing my questions, in this case he left me wondering why he quoted me at all. I'm asking about how the behavior of one "protected" member affects board policy and the moderation of other members ... and he is talking about the process that went into deciding why to remove smilies. If there's a connection, I'm not seeing it.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Perhaps I can help, having been the acting mod for the thread.
If I understand correctly, you were wondering why the post you referred to with Green Zone violations was not removed. Then later you saw that it had been. It just took a while for it to get done, and that was what Cave Diver was saying. As it happened, I was sound asleep in my faraway time zone when the post was made, and I woke up to see it, and then promptly took care of it.

As to what effect one particular member has on the moderation of other members, I would say no specific effect. We protect all of our members, and we don't protect any individual member more than any other individual member. We do, however, try to shield certain groups--new members, and especially those who are also new/inexperienced divers--from the shock of the strongly-worded replies that are frequently encountered in the more advanced forums.

We would prefer to see basic questions that new divers/members ask (even if they "should" have learned the answer in their training course) than to have these members be intimidated into silence for fear of being told "demand a refund on your class because your training was inadequate," "go read your manual," "do a search," and made to feel generally unwelcome unless their questions are interesting enough or obscure enough to merit a real answer from experienced veteran members. You, Bob, are very good at answering these kinds of questions nicely.

 

[HowardE]

No.

Although John is usually very good at addressing my questions, in this case he left me wondering why he quoted me at all. I'm asking about how the behavior of one "protected" member affects board policy and the moderation of other members ... and he is talking about the process that went into deciding why to remove smilies. If there's a connection, I'm not seeing it.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

While you may view this as "one protected member" really all new members are protected to some degree in the Green Zone. We (ScubaBoard and the moderators) must view everyone as having the best intentions unless otherwise proven wrong. The concept of the Green Zone is to encourage people to post, no matter how flamed they might get elsewhere in the world.

Whilst many veterans view people as trolls right away (and some people even get very upset... call the users trolls, and start making life miserable for all involved)... We must give the user in question the benefit of the doubt, that they're genuine and that their questions are being posted with the BEST intentions. This has happened in the past, and will continue to happen in the future. Often times, there is a perception that we are "protecting" a user or even we've been accused of giving preferential treatment to user X. We are giving preferential treatment to every user that is posting questions in the Green Zones. Sometimes we're right, and sometimes we're wrong.

Edit: Apparently Quero also posted essentially the same thing while I was typing this.

 

[gypsyjim]

Sometimes the moderation ship takes a while to turn onto a new course. Just because there isn't an instant response to something, doesn't necessarily mean there isn't going to be one.

Likewise, some of the things that seem like they happen over night have been the result of long ongoing discussions. There is an incorrect premise that the popcorn smiley was removed because it was causing an issue in it's use. While things may appear this way, the reality is that it was just a casualty. The issue actually stemmed from another smiley and an ongoing debate about how it was being (mis)used. I missed the actual decision to remove it, along with several others (including the popcorn) because I was busy with other things.

The point is, that even though it may seem that certain things are snap decisions from a user point of view, in most instance they're not. That's the same reason why certain things seem to take forever to be acted on. It just depends on what end of the decision process you happen to run across the issue at.

The "other smiley" you were referring to didn't involve a flag pole and two letters did it? I don't think I ever used it, but noticed that it seems to have been removed too. Just curious. THAT is one emoticon I could see (and have a few times) being abused.

 

[VooDooGasMan]

I see many new moderators as they become after this thread started, and the poll is at a current level of moderation is fine. So the poll is useless as far as I can tell.

I seen a post from knowone and glad as his post are very Interesting and good information.

Whatever happens in life happens, whats the point of complaining about a post or thread.

Getting bothered over words, sentences, paragraphs, quotes is about a person who has never grown up. Its as if were all in school and to graduate to the highest class we must become a MOD.

SIGH
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" "
" "

---------- Post added April 3rd, 2012 at 05:09 AM ----------

Howard your right on that calling people trolls is insane, everyone has an opinion.

 

[ScubaSteve]

So the poll is useless as far as I can tell.

Many people have also likely decided against voting at all based on the knowledge that nothing will change from a poll on ScubaBoard. Poll or not, the words that are being spoken are what matters. And these words that matter are being spoken all over the board. I see this poll as nothing more than a means to a discussion on the topic.

Edit

People are always throwing out that a complaint is never valid because such a minuscule number appear in relation to the total readership of ScubaBoard. Well the same holds true of this POLL.....0.00047% have voted (94/200,000). Sounds irrelevant to me. The discussion, if actually absorbed rather than ignored, can be priceless.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Perhaps I can help, having been the acting mod for the thread.
If I understand correctly, you were wondering why the post you referred to with Green Zone violations was not removed. Then later you saw that it had been. It just took a while for it to get done, and that was what Cave Diver was saying. As it happened, I was sound asleep in my faraway time zone when the post was made, and I woke up to see it, and then promptly took care of it.

As to what effect one particular member has on the moderation of other members, I would say no specific effect. We protect all of our members, and we don't protect any individual member more than any other individual member. We do, however, try to shield certain groups--new members, and especially those who are also new divers--from the shock of the strongly-worded replies that are frequently encountered in the more advanced forums.

You're partly correct in what I was asking ... but I'm not referring so much to a specific action or post as I am a pattern of behavior.

I'm quite in favor of shielding new members, and especially those who are also new divers, from the shock of strongly-worded replies ... in fact, I've come to their defense on many occasions against such things.

What I'm not in favor of is shielding new members who display a pattern of behavior that invites those strongly-worded replies ... only to then complain about it when people disagree with them. It's not a question of being unfriendly ... I certainly have never seen, in all her posts, TSandM being unfriendly on this board. Does she deserve the abuse this poster heaped on her simply because she disagreed with what he had posted? Does the poster deserve automatic protection from her ... or anyone else's ... dissenting opinions simply because he's new? This poster has ... in a short time ... developed a history of creating threads that are lightning rods ... not because the topics are controversial, but because of his proclivity of stating absolute opinions on topics he knows very little about. And even when someone makes an honest attempt to explain something to him, he takes it as a personal attack. Some of the moderation in those threads has left me shaking my head in wonder at how the staff doesn't see that they're enabling the behavior ... what amounts, to my concern, to a temper tantrum that you'd expect from a toddler. You don't break that behavior by shielding the toddler ... you break it by making the child understand that it's not acceptable, and you're not going to put up with it.

That is the other side of this coin that must also be considered, because it's just as disruptive. The post I referred to was just one example of this behavior ... both with this particular user and with other users who have done similar things in the past.

I concur that the Green Zone forums should protect users from strongly-worded replies. But when the thread opens with a strongly-worded premise, perhaps the appropriate action would be to notify the OP that the thread is inappropriate for that forum because of the special rules, and move the topic to a more appropriate place, where it can receive the treatment it deserves.

Because ... like in diving ... we must all bear responsibility for the consequences of our decisions ... otherwise, like in diving, we encourage people to depend on others to "keep them safe" ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[gypsyjim]

Many people have also likely decided against voting at all based on the knowledge that nothing will change from a poll on ScubaBoard. Poll or not, the words that are being spoken are what matters. And these words that matter are being spoken all over the board. I see this poll as nothing more than a means to a discussion on the topic.

Not a bad thing at all. Polls, by themselves are not all that useful. It is the dialog that results from a poll that really airs issues and challenges, and may result in communication between differing side of the discussion, rather than pile up a bunch of meaningless votes.

I have used polls on SB for just such a reason. It was the open discussion I was hoping to generate, and not just a list of who voted for what.

 

[VooDooGasMan]

Ah I only went a page or two and never seen the thread and post, must be talking about the famous matt beckwidth (not sure on spelling)

I think matt is doing well to figure out how to be a cyber diver.

But I know jax is class president for her short time as a member and 30,000 + post, "HOLY POST BATMAN"

Well I had enough for this morning time to go diving.