MK10 Rebuilding Mods and Best Practices

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You have a MK 25, why spend so much time and effort on the 10? Play with it but dive the 25.
It isn't often that I take issue with Lex. His advice is spot on.
Yet, as I slowly transition from a "big bore pistons are simpler and better than complex diaphragms" guy, I'm starting to flesh out why.
My first reg was the Mk10. I'm too young to have started with the Mk5. And I watched the growing pains of the Mk10+ as the knife edge piston was replaced with the same rounded end piston still used in the Mk25.
But one thing I consistently note over the years, which has been the subject of more than one thread, is the "mushy lockup" often displayed. Like this thread: Thread Unexpected IP drift in a newly-serviced first stage
As @James79 points out, small imperfections between seat and piston end allow a leak and increasing IP until there's enough pressure on the seat to finally seal it. That was a huge problem for the Mk10+, with its small piston head.
While an old Mk10 has a delicate sharp knife edge that is easy for ham-fisted techs to damage, the one thing a good knife edge does well, is seal crisply. And the Mk25 and Atomic have been the butt of well-deserved criticism for the results of the attempt to make the piston less delicate: it just doesn't seal as crisply. At least, not for a whole two-year service interval.
Get them both, @Timmyjane ! Play with their differences as you restore the two pistons. The techniques are different. You'll see the advantage of the Mk25 in easy tuning and easy disassembly. You'll see the disadvantage of the Mk10 in now-hard-to-find-parts. But a good sharp-edge piston sure does seal up crisply!

None of the lockups last as long as a diaphragm, I'm coming to learn, but diaphragms have a host of compensatory problems. There will always be two camps.

Sounds like you need to participate in our Reg Tech Seminar. I'm still doing them every six weeks or so, and our graduate list is up to 120 people from the US and around the world. But the waiting list is about six months long, I'm afraid. Now that I've retired from real work, perhaps I can trim that down. But it's frustrating to keep folks waiting, and I hesitate to even mention it. Still, you seem like the ideal candidate.

Hey, @lexvil , you're right! The Mk25 is just as cheap to buy and a lot more fun to work on. Certainly easier to restore the piston. But there's a hidden jewel in the Mk10 that's worth playing with. I didn't mean to pick on you.
 
It isn't often that I take issue with Lex. His advice is spot on.
Yet, as I slowly transition from a "big bore pistons are simpler and better than complex diaphragms" guy, I'm starting to flesh out why.
My first reg was the Mk10. I'm too young to have started with the Mk5. And I watched the growing pains of the Mk10+ as the knife edge piston was replaced with the same rounded end piston still used in the Mk25.
But one thing I consistently note over the years, which has been the subject of more than one thread, is the "mushy lockup" often displayed. Like this thread: Thread Unexpected IP drift in a newly-serviced first stage
As @James79 points out, small imperfections between seat and piston end allow a leak and increasing IP until there's enough pressure on the seat to finally seal it. That was a huge problem for the Mk10+, with its small piston head.
While an old Mk10 has a delicate sharp knife edge that is easy for ham-fisted techs to damage, the one thing a good knife edge does well, is seal crisply. And the Mk25 and Atomic have been the butt of well-deserved criticism for the results of the attempt to make the piston less delicate: it just doesn't seal as crisply. At least, not for a whole two-year service interval.
Get them both, @Timmyjane ! Play with their differences as you restore the two pistons. The techniques are different. You'll see the advantage of the Mk25 in easy tuning and easy disassembly. You'll see the disadvantage of the Mk10 in now-hard-to-find-parts. But a good sharp-edge piston sure does seal up crisply!

None of the lockups last as long as a diaphragm, I'm coming to learn, but diaphragms have a host of compensatory problems. There will always be two camps.

Sounds like you need to participate in our Reg Tech Seminar. I'm still doing them every six weeks or so, and our graduate list is up to 120 people from the US and around the world. But the waiting list is about six months long, I'm afraid. Now that I've retired from real work, perhaps I can trim that down. But it's frustrating to keep folks waiting, and I hesitate to even mention it. Still, you seem like the ideal candidate.

Hey, @lexvil , you're right! The Mk25 is just as cheap to buy and a lot more fun to work on. Certainly easier to restore the piston. But there's a hidden jewel in the Mk10 that's worth playing with. I didn't mean to pick on you.
It’s ok Rob, being wrong is how we best learn…😉
 
@Bloody Knuckles thank you again for the great advice. I’ll dive into the posts and videos you mention. I have not come across those yet. I have a microscope somewhere from another project. I’ll dig around for it. Seems like a good tool to add to the scuba table along with some micromesh.

I appreciate the insight @rsingler. When I was first looking for gear to outfit myself and my wife the MK10 seemed like a good one to start with based on what I was reading. Had I received this advice beforehand I might have been looking out more for the 25s. I have gotten my 10s for an average of $50 each. 2 of them I was under the impression had been serviced but it turns out they weren’t. Now I have them so I guess I need to fix em up. I’ll keep an eye out for MK25s. Seems hard to believe they can be had for $50 but I’ll definitely be watching. I do have another 10 on the way. I snagged another 10 and G250 with some old computer off eBay for $100 shipped. This one does have the recess for the SPEC boot. That makes 4. 😳. I might have a problem.

I’m not real familiar with the term lockup. I guess the means the regs ability to seal and hold its set pressure over the long term?
 
I’m not real familiar with the term lockup. I guess the means the regs ability to seal and hold its set pressure over the long term?
In this usage, lockup is referring to how a crisp, repeatable stop at the IP it's set for. Looking at your IP gauge, if you purge the second stage you'll see IP drop some while it's purging, and pop back up when you let off the purge. A good, crisp lock up is when it jumps from its lower dynamic IP to it's set IP quickly and with an abrupt stop (i.e. 125 in full purge jumping to 140 almost instantly when purge is released, and staying there). A mushy lockup would be if it jumped to 138 immediately but didn't quite stop, ending at 140 a couple seconds later and staying there. IP drift is if the lockup IP varies with each demand. IP creep is like a mushy lockup but the IP keeps slowly rising (until the second stage acts as an over pressure valve).
 
@rsingler - didn't you use an MK10 for 8 years or so without servicing it, except for removing the yoke bolt and cleaning the threads?
Sure did! My little bicycle tire environmental seal protected the MK10 ever since this thread: DIY SPEC Boot

All I did was change the yoke bolt to clean verdigris in the threads from diving. I just now noticed some drift in the lockup on my last trip to Cozumel, after almost 10 years. I'm going to take it apart next weekend at the Reg Tech Seminar and we'll see what is finally causing the drift.
 
I'm going to take it apart next weekend at the Reg Tech Seminar and we'll see what is finally causing the drift.
Look forward to that debug session — would that be the US or EU seminar?
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

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