Mk. 2 and Mk. 3 Undergarment Q's

[Guy Alcala]

Hi, I had the opportunity to try out the Fusion, Mk. 2 and Mk. 3 undergarment johns at your Demo days in Monterey. I liked them very much, but a Fusion is out of reach for the moment, so I'm looking to upgrade my undergarment for now.

I had a few questions/comments. I love the pockets on the Johns, very well designed and placed. In fact, they're the best arranged pockets I've ever seen on a drysuit undergarment. The drop seat is also a great feature, and I really appreciated the fleece-lined collar and the good cuffs; I've rejected buying lots of drysuit undergarments because they've got a rib-knit collar and/or cuffs, that irritate my neck and soak up and retain water.

I liked the Mk.3 and am seriously considering getting one as I move into deco diving, but think it's a bit too bulky and restrictive, and perhaps even too warm for recreational diving (I'm not a photographer, and often swim long distances while rec. diving). But for deco hangs it would be just what I'd want. It did seem a bit slow to vent compared to my own single layer fleece (not surprising), and I think it might benefit from a vent hole or mesh area or two on the left arm.

The Mk.2 John would be better for me for recreational diving, but I don't understand why you chose to leave the fleece on the front of the thighs and the mid/lower back exposed, instead of covering it with Taslon for wind protection as is the case with the rest of the suit (and the entire Mk.3). It's often cold and windy during SIs in Monterey/Carmel, where I do almost all my diving, and the lack of windproof covering for the fleece compromises the effectiveness of the Mk.2 as an outergarment in these conditions. I'd like to see the nylon outershell extended to cover the rest of the Mk.2, as with the Mk.3. And left shoulder/wrist vent holes/mesh areas wouldn't be a bad idea, although you can partially unzip the sleeve of the Mk.2 to ameliorate that problem. I think you could do away with the arm zips, as I find it hard to imagine anyone diving a drysuit who would choose to remove the sleeves. Maybe people diving the Fusion will do so, but the rest of us tend to switch to a wetsuit for water temperatures where removing the sleeves would be viable.

Finally, I wore a size Large Mk. 2 or a Mk. 3 during my test dives because of my height, but also tried on a size M. As is often the case for me a Medium size fits me in the body, but the legs and sleeves are too short. The Large size has long enough legs and sleeves, but is big around the body. I normally find a M Tall, ML, or ML Tall fits me best in a wetsuit or drysuit undergarment: I'm 6'/175-180 lb., normally wear a size M shirt but have a 32"-33" waist and a 34" inseam. So, I'd like to know if you have any plans to make a size ML or offer a size M in a tall size, for those of us who are shaped more like a telephone pole than a fireplug?

One last thing. I was unable to find a size chart for undergarments on your website, just one for the Fusion itself. Is there such a chart?

Thanks,

Guy

 

[sander8]

Have you looked at Bare undergarments? They have a Medium Tall that might fit you. You can find a size chart on the Bare website.

 

[Guy Alcala]

Have you looked at Bare undergarments? They have a Medium Tall that might fit you. You can find a size chart on the Bare website.

Yes, I have looked at them, and rejected them because they have "Ribbed knit cuffs & collar for secure comfort" -- see my previous post.

Thanks,

Guy

 

[Jorgy]

Could you use the MK2 top and this underneath?

Mares Comfort Soft DrySuit Undergarment reviews and discounts, Mares

M

 

[fdog]

Hello Guy, given your anticipated dive profiles, I thought these might help. Keep in mind I am the KING of the cold weenies!

Both these dives are scooter dives, wearing a Fusion Tech, Mk 3, and Duofold (thin) skin thermals underneath.


On this dive I emerged from the water with cold feet, but otherwise warm:

On this dive, I emerged from the water shivering:

Also, given the high loft of the Mk 3, I've found that a 6 cf suit bottle just barely makes it to the end of the dive.


Hope this helps!


All the best, James

 

[Guy Alcala]

Could you use the MK2 top and this underneath?

Mares Comfort Soft DrySuit Undergarment reviews and discounts, Mares

M

Since that's got thinsulate and the Mk.2 doesn't, I suspect it would be warmer than the Mk.2 just by itself. I can't find it on Mares website, and the link you proovided only shows size S and L, but I'll check out my print Mares catalog.

James, thanks for the profiles. When my buddy and I tried the Mk. 2 in the Fusion, we were both immediately struck by how much colder the Fusion was than our neo suits (him compressed, me CF200). We both were ready to bail after about 40 minutes in 53 deg. water due to cold. In my CF200 I can stay reasonably warm while swimming with my single layer fleece now, until it gets down below 50. The Mk.3 was great for warmth inside the CF200. My personal thermostat has only two settings, max. and off, so I generate a lot of heat while moving, and nothing while sitting still. I'm still deciding which way to go.

Thanks,

Guy

 

[fdog]

Yes, I understand. My prior suit was a CF200, a it is much warmer than a shell suit.

...It just takes more insulation to run a shell suit. For what it's worth, I can tell no difference in warmth between a TLS 350 and a Fusion, a shell is a shell.

With the extra flexibility of the Fusion, there is no way I'd go back to the CF200, though. Like wearing a suit of heavy wet armor.

Good luck with your decisions!


All the best, James

 

[Jorgy]

I got a Large....I am 5 foot 11..........with a 33 - 34" inseam.....

I think you could go with an XL......the suit has a significant elastic back so there is no bunching at all at the belly......

For me it fit perfectly like a tailored suit.......

Since it is a close out at Scuba Toys the size selection could be dwindling......

Hope this helps.....M

 

[Dogfish Doug]

Hello Guy, thanks for your comments on our undergarments. I believe we spoke at the demo days in Monterey, thanks again for coming out. The reason we left the fleece open on the front of the thighs and along the mid and lower back exposed on the MK2 was to acheive a more comfortable, as well as flexible fit, at this time we were being told alot of divers were not doffing their suit between dives. We had to modify this with the creation of the MK3, as it is a triple layered deisgn, with primaloft added between the panels. So we had to cover everywhere with material. In regards to the sleeve zips, this was to allow people to layer their garments. You can either undo the sleeves on the jacket to wear as a vest over top of the john for extra core insulation, or un-zip the sleeves form the john and wear the jacket overtop. Preference to the indivual. Alas we currently do not make our undergarments in MT sizes, we do however create a pro series line of custom made to measure that might work better for you.
Hope this helps Guy, thanks for the feedback it helps us design the best equipment, allowing you to have the most enjoyable dive. We appreciate all comments good and bad.
Doug.

 

[Guy Alcala]

Yes, I understand. My prior suit was a CF200, a it is much warmer than a shell suit.
...It just takes more insulation to run a shell suit. For what it's worth, I can tell no difference in warmth between a TLS 350 and a Fusion, a shell is a shell. With the extra flexibility of the Fusion, there is no way I'd go back to the CF200, though. Like wearing a suit of heavy wet armor.
Good luck with your decisions!

All the best,

James

Yeah, I got my drysuit cert in a rental TLS350, but I've been diving the CF200 for a couple of years and had gotten accustomed to its warmth. My buddy and I both had the same reaction as we walked in wearing the Fusion/Mk.2 and the water came up over our ankles - "Boy, this water feels a lot colder than normal!":shocked2: We both normally use a single layer fleece undergarment under our neo suits (we're cold if we're not swimming, but not like in the Fusion).

I concur on the CF200 feeling like a 'suit of heavy wet armor'; indeed, I sometimes wish for a squire to help me get in and out of it. But it's about as bulletproof as they get, and prior to the Fusion one of the lowest drag, which is important for me. And it also helped that a used CF200 became available at just the right time, and at a ridiculously low price that I could actually afford.

The only thing I dislike about the Fusion* is the zipper, as I lack flexibility and have a tough time closing the last few inches against the stop; a diagonal cross-chest zip closing downwards is much easier for me to shut with a little authority against the stop, and then check. I do a lot of solo diving, so not having to struggle to get into or out of the suit is important. But at least they switched it so that the Fusion now closes from right to left, as I can use my stronger right thumb to push it those last few inches; when I tried one of the early models a couple of years ago I had to try to close it with my left thumb, and that was impossible. Could you tell me if closing the zipper gets easier with experience, or is it just something you put up with?

*(Well, that and the fact that it looks like a pair of kid's Superhero pajamas, especially the Red one I'd get. But I'll just have to put up with the snickers)

I got a Large....I am 5 foot 11..........with a 33 - 34" inseam.....
I think you could go with an XL......the suit has a significant elastic back so there is no bunching at all at the belly......
For me it fit perfectly like a tailored suit.......FPRIVATE "TYPE=PICT;ALT="
Since it is a close out at Scuba Toys the size selection could be dwindling......

Hope this helps.....M

Thanks, I'm looking at the size chart. I expect an L would fit, although an ML would fit better. Can you tell me if it has ribknit cuffs and collar? I can't be sure from the photo, although the cuffs look like they might be.

Hello Guy, thanks for your comments on our undergarments. I believe we spoke at the demo days in Monterey, thanks again for coming out. The reason we left the fleece open on the front of the thighs and along the mid and lower back exposed on the MK2 was to acheive a more comfortable, as well as flexible fit, at this time we were being told alot of divers were not doffing their suit between dives. We had to modify this with the creation of the MK3, as it is a triple layered deisgn, with primaloft added between the panels. So we had to cover everywhere with material. In regards to the sleeve zips, this was to allow people to layer their garments. You can either undo the sleeves on the jacket to wear as a vest over top of the john for extra core insulation, or un-zip the sleeves form the john and wear the jacket overtop. Preference to the indivual. Alas we currently do not make our undergarments in MT sizes, we do however create a pro series line of custom made to measure that might work better for you.
Hope this helps Guy, thanks for the feedback it helps us design the best equipment, allowing you to have the most enjoyable dive. We appreciate all comments good and bad.

Doug.

Hi, Doug, we did speak at the demo day, and I had a look at the Pro series on your website after you'd mentioned them. AFAICT the custom cuts are only available on the all-fleece undersuits, and not the Mk.2 or Mk.3?

Re the exposed fleece on the Mk.2, I guess it's damned if you do and damned if you don't. The Fusion may be comfortable enough that people don't bother to remove it as often, even though it's easy to do. I usually walk around in my CF200 (normally pulled down to the waist) during an SI. On cold mornings I put the undergarment on first thing before putting my gear together, and want built-in wind protection until getting into my drysuit, last.

Re the sleeve zips I see the rationale, I just wonder how often people do that on the John as compared to the jacket. Kudos for giving people maximum flexibility, but I'd think that it would be more common to remove the sleeves from the jacket and use it as a vest over the John, than the other way around. Have you gotten any feedback that would tell you whether one's more typical than the other?

Thanks,

Guy