Mixing DIN and Yoke Regs on Doubles

[TSandM]

VeganShark, do me a favor . . . contact Gombessa here on SB. (Look him up here -- he posts GREAT videos!) He does exactly what you want to do -- long recreational depth dives at the Monterey dive sites. He can give you advice, and maybe you can hook up with him to do a dive or two.

You have so many questions in this thread that I think what you really need more than anything else is a mentor.

 

[DaleC]

Well, I have a slightly different opinion on some of this stuff but can't disagree too much with what's been said. I place a larger value on trial and error as being intrinsic to my learning style and would probably emphasize other issues. Rather than worry about yoke/DIN combos, which won't kill anyone in the short term, I see other more glaring problems.

I would rather someone new diving wet use a DIN/Yoke combo on twin Al 80's than two DINs on twin St 130's. For many sites, a tech dive does not have a reasonable hard bottom so a wing failure will mean you need to try to maintain depth by swimming a negative rig while deploying a lift device. Not easy, especially for a novice.

I'd also rather have someone do some simple dives in a mixed configuration to see if they even like Tech diving before running out and dropping K's for gear that might also, just as likely, sit in the back of the closet. Being fully kitted in large capacity gear may lead to the temptation to do large capacity dives (ie. 4 hours in a wetsuit).

Your intro to tech should be rec dives in tech gear (read: twins with isolator) with an emphasis on tech related planning and skills. Basically tech dives within reg limits. Any dope with a high pain/boredom thresh hold can survive an endurance dive but your ability to plan and execute dives is what needs to be developed.

On the west coast, if you are seriously going to do longer dives, with others, you will eventually dive dry. Instead of a 4 hour dive, try a one hour dive motionless at 50'. Welcome to deco. Even if you think you can do it, others are going to look askance at someone wanting to do tech dives wet.

To me, as a solo diver in cold water, a real danger exists from becoming incapacitated due to cold. Not from keeling over dead (though that may be an end result), but from becoming unable to properly manipulate equipment or think straight. Try detaching a LP whip when your fingers won't work, or closing a valve, or deploying and using that little cut off steak knife. What happens when ham hands fumbles the SMB and sends it, and the reel, to the surface. Consider also, the effect of cold stress on decompression efficacy.

 

[lv2dive]

THANK YOU Lynne! As I was catching up on this thread, I was just thinking... I hope before this person goes and spends a ton of $$$, someone can recommend a mentor and help get him/her sorted out and get his/her questions answered.

VS - I very much relate to you because you are doing the best you can, to figure out the next right thing, without any role models in front of you. I am assuming (from reading in between the lines) that you don't mind spending the money to get your kit where it needs to be, but you don't want to make stupid decisions you will regret, which is why you are out on the internets asking all these questions.

So... I am going to post part of response that I had penned yesterday but didn't post. I didn't post it for a couple of reasons. One - I didn't to want to curb your enthusiasm, because I think that is wonderful. Two - well, let me get to two in a minute. it is really hard to get this point across and I am not sure how well I will accomplish it. Other people have said this: Tech diving costs $$. A lot of $$. You start to realize the significance of that when you judge everything in terms of how many fills of 21/35 or 18/45 any one item would cost. Making any kind of decision for critical kit like your regs, based on $50 or $100, just can't be done. Which kind of brings me to reason two for not replying - it's hard to explain to someone that they really have to accept/realize that they are going to make bad monetary decisions and it is all part of the process.

You are going to make equipment decisions that cost you money. You will end up buying the same piece of kit of kit multiple times bc you learn more and realize the first purchase wasn't the best - for you. It will happen. You WILL buy the wrong thing. You can either kick yourself for buying the new shiny toy or for not listening to your mentor or for listening to the wrong people, or you can suck it up and take it for what it is - essentially, a learning tax that we all have paid, to one degree or another. And move forward. Perhaps realizing better who to listen to, perhaps with a stonger eye towards used gear. But accepting that just about everyone has been there.

It happened to me. HOLY HECK did it happen to me. Like you, in the very beginning I did not have a PERSON with whom I could talk - I had only Scubaboard, and my non-tech (but wanting-to-be tech) LDS. On SB, I didn't ask questions, but I read and read and read some more. I didn't make all bad decisions. I did NOT buy a huge double bladder wing that was recommended, and I didn't buy the comfort harness that I very explicitly told the dive shop I didn't want and they still tried to put me in. But I made bad tank decisions, and for me, a bad drysuit decision (Understand - that one is a personal preference issue - my suggestion to everyone is to TRY multiple types of drysuits before diving them). I also ended up with a u-shaped wing that eventually went to sell at a swap meet for pennies on the dollar because I really, really like the Halcyon Eclipse/Evolve donut wings.

Anyway, long story short, the best way to shortcut some of these mistakes is with a mentor or a VERY GOOD instructor who is not out there trying to sell you stuff. That is one (of several) thing that I really appreciated about my second Fundies instructor, Doug Mudry... Although he managed a dive shop, the only piece of kit he pointed out as potentially *really* needing any change, was my high pressure hose which was too long for me. I had a "in person" mentor after I took fundies with him, and when I had questions about changing things, I could go to him and talk about the positives and negatives of this choice or that one. Some things I bought used, some things I bought from his shop, but he counseled me regardless.

At this point, my kit is straightened out and I pretty much have everything as I want it, with backups for the critical gear. I've sold most of my mistakes at a great loss and just considered it a "learning tax" as previously mentioned. But I did it the hard way, initially, and I hope you take a look at the advice below and consider taking it. It will make your life much easier (and save you money!) in the long run.

VeganShark, do me a favor . . . contact Gombessa here on SB. (Look him up here -- he posts GREAT videos!) He does exactly what you want to do -- long recreational depth dives at the Monterey dive sites. He can give you advice, and maybe you can hook up with him to do a dive or two.

You have so many questions in this thread that I think what you really need more than anything else is a mentor.

 

[EMiles]

There is no reason to "go it alone" in Monterey. There are so many tech divers in area that mentors abound. Just hang out at Lobos on any Saturday. Better yet check out the BAUE website. I think there is a GUE primer coming up. There is definitely a Fundamentals class. You just don't know what you don't know.

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[DaleC]

The mentoring comments are spot on, and for those who like courses, an introductory course.

But in regards to purchasing gear. I think too much is made of buying instead of learning. For those who are fortunate enough that price is no object, my comments may seem unnecessary, but it still fits that you can do a lot of learning in what you might have, before laying down serious coin. Simple, entry level tech diving need not be that expensive if you are willing to be disciplined.

I started doing simple extended range/deco dives with twin Al 80's (which I had from rec diving), a BP/W with an Apexs 40lb wing (rec diving) and two yoked regs (rec diving). My first purchase was an isolating manifold with yoke inserts. I twinned the 80's by making bands out of HVAC strapping and found my single wing still worked for these doubles.

Then I could begin to practice simple deco dive skills and planning without more than a $200 dollar outlay (for the manifold, which is always useful).

What I eventually found was that my niche was not with bigger tech dives like my friends, but rather, extended range solo dives with maybe some simple deco. I had neither the money, nor the time, to pursue more committed tech diving and much of what I was interested in did not lie in that realm anyway.

I exchanged my twin Al80's for St 72's, dumping some lead along the way. Used one Al80 for a travel stage. Kept the same wing. Eventually bought a DIN reg set. Traded my AL30 pony to a friend for an Al40.
My manifold has been used both for twins and for ID's/SM as left/right valves.

In the end, what I found I had to spend money on was a dry suit. I had a Bare bilaminate which was good but old, and I began to not completely trust it. I could not justify having a serious deco commitment in 40F water and a failed dry suit so I bought a new one.

I also could not afford a can light initially. Turns out I quite like videography and am now glad I did not buy one. I keep a backup torch but use the video light as my primary. When I upgrade, it will not be for a can light but rather for a better video light.

A long story that probably doesn't have much to do with tech diving but I thought I would relate it to show one side of an intro to tech journey and the results. I did not spend a ton of money, did not sell anything on CL, nor do I regret any purchases I did make. Everything I have can still be used for rec diving and if I had wished to pursue tech, much of it could also have been seamlessly incorporated.

However, I did learn and practice basic tech oriented skills. I was able to plan simple air deco dives, do valve drills, run lines, shoot bags, do small penetrations etc...

 

[DogDiver]

I thought I would make a short comment on this divers issues. I compare tech shopping to shopping at Sam's Club. Ya know you can't pick up any product at Sam's that doesn't cost at least $10. In a cave/tech dive shop, you can't pick up anything that is less then $100. With that said. I cave dive wet, duel bladder nomad side mount. I added up the cost of the dive gear on every dive. I enter the water with $28,000 worth of investment. Tech diving is very equipment intensive. It costs thousands of dollars


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