Missing Diver at Lake Pleasant

[AzScubaGuy78]

First and foremost, my prayers go out to Tim's family and friends. When I heard about what happened last Saturday at Lake Pleasant, my heart sunk in my chest. The thought of one of our own having to leave the world in such a way is almost unbearable. Although I did not know him personally, I feel connected in a way I am sure at least a few other divers do. We love to dive. It has become a passion of mine and I am saddened that this too is/could have been a passion of Tim's as well. My heart goes out to everybody involved/affected by this tragedy.

As for my other thoughts (and yes just my opinion, I am not looking to start arguments/disagreements, just need to get this off my chest) about how things have played out in the dive community (at least to me) here in Phoenix after this incident...

Today I was on a personal boat with my dive buddy, leaving the North Marina, and saw such a site. Heading to a spot near the back of the lake to dive, I spotted three boats, anchored over the "Old Dam" about three hundred feet apart from each other, one on one side, two on the other. I recognized one to be the local dive biz (the boat I do believe Tim was on), and the other two, not so recognizable. I past by as it was non of my biz what/who/when/where/why they were there.

Later after our dives (viz was to be expected therefore not the best lake diving I have done in my past), I came back and saw a few fellow divers at Vista, stopping by to pay a quick visit.

Apparently a search was going on today for Tim is what I collected. I feel a great sense of gratitude for those who volunteer their time to make sure the depths of Lake Pleasant was NOT Tim's final resting ground....

The thing that makes my stomach turn is overhearing that the other two boats were from the LDS that Tim was doing his AOW with...on the "Old Dam" DOING THE SAME CLASS THEY JUST LOST A MAN 8 DAYS AGO IN! I have been to the "Old Dam" with the Scubateers plenty of times to know that THIS IS NOT THE PLACE TO HOLD AN AOW CLASS FOR THOSE WHO DO NOT HAVE AT LEAST 50+ DIVES UNDER THEIR BELT! (AGAIN JUST MY OPINION)!!!

We lost a diver there 8 days ago and we are already back in the water. We should be learning from this incident, not giving it another shot at happening. STAY WITH YOUR BUDDY is what my instructor pounded in my head almost 5 years ago when I myself was being certified, and here we are, the LDS who enrolled this man into an early grave, holding the same class in the same place! ARE WE SO NAIVE TO HAVE NOT LEARNED THE FIRST TIME!

Again, I am no person to judge. I have messed up plenty of times, in the water and out. I am NOT pointing fingers, just pointing facts that anger me to say the least. I do not know what happened to Tim. I do not think knowing what happened to him is going to change anything, he is gone and that is the point.

I pray for his homecoming so his family and friends have the closure they deserve. I also pray for those who were there that day, I cant imagine this has been an easy time for them too.

 

[IDS_Bill]

Thanks for your comments,

I was one of the searchers on the dive boat to the West. We were the ones conducting the search. We were searching in depths to 214ffw and viz was 10-15 feet. We managed to eliminate some key areas and we will be coordinating with other members of the search team to make sure we don't duplicate search areas.

I am happy that all divers, support, crew and bottom divers, returned safely but am obviously bummed that we did not locate Tim. We will keep looking and will work to develop and maintain a well organized search.

As for the other boats, I am not able to comment on that or maybe I just don't want to..........

First and foremost, my prayers go out to Tim's family and friends. When I heard about what happened last Saturday at Lake Pleasant, my heart sunk in my chest. The thought of one of our own having to leave the world in such a way is almost unbearable. Although I did not know him personally, I feel connected in a way I am sure at least a few other divers do. We love to dive. It has become a passion of mine and I am saddened that this too is/could have been a passion of Tim's as well. My heart goes out to everybody involved/affected by this tragedy.

As for my other thoughts (and yes just my opinion, I am not looking to start arguments/disagreements, just need to get this off my chest) about how things have played out in the dive community (at least to me) here in Phoenix after this incident...

Today I was on a personal boat with my dive buddy, leaving the North Marina, and saw such a site. Heading to a spot near the back of the lake to dive, I spotted three boats, anchored over the "Old Dam" about three hundred feet apart from each other, one on one side, two on the other. I recognized one to be the local dive biz (the boat I do believe Tim was on), and the other two, not so recognizable. I past by as it was non of my biz what/who/when/where/why they were there.

Later after our dives (viz was to be expected therefore not the best lake diving I have done in my past), I came back and saw a few fellow divers at Vista, stopping by to pay a quick visit.

Apparently a search was going on today for Tim is what I collected. I feel a great sense of gratitude for those who volunteer their time to make sure the depths of Lake Pleasant was NOT Tim's final resting ground....

The thing that makes my stomach turn is overhearing that the other two boats were from the LDS that Tim was doing his AOW with...on the "Old Dam" DOING THE SAME CLASS THEY JUST LOST A MAN 8 DAYS AGO IN! I have been to the "Old Dam" with the Scubateers plenty of times to know that THIS IS NOT THE PLACE TO HOLD AN AOW CLASS FOR THOSE WHO DO NOT HAVE AT LEAST 50+ DIVES UNDER THEIR BELT! (AGAIN JUST MY OPINION)!!!

We lost a diver there 8 days ago and we are already back in the water. We should be learning from this incident, not giving it another shot at happening. STAY WITH YOUR BUDDY is what my instructor pounded in my head almost 5 years ago when I myself was being certified, and here we are, the LDS who enrolled this man into an early grave, holding the same class in the same place! ARE WE SO NAIVE TO HAVE NOT LEARNED THE FIRST TIME!

Again, I am no person to judge. I have messed up plenty of times, in the water and out. I am NOT pointing fingers, just pointing facts that anger me to say the least. I do not know what happened to Tim. I do not think knowing what happened to him is going to change anything, he is gone and that is the point.

I pray for his homecoming so his family and friends have the closure they deserve. I also pray for those who were there that day, I cant imagine this has been an easy time for them too.

 

[ScubaSteve]

The thing that makes my stomach turn is overhearing that the other two boats were from the LDS that Tim was doing his AOW with...on the "Old Dam" DOING THE SAME CLASS THEY JUST LOST A MAN 8 DAYS AGO IN! I have been to the "Old Dam" with the Scubateers plenty of times to know that THIS IS NOT THE PLACE TO HOLD AN AOW CLASS FOR THOSE WHO DO NOT HAVE AT LEAST 50+ DIVES UNDER THEIR BELT! (AGAIN JUST MY OPINION)!!!

What relevance does the class have to do with anything. The fact that they were back in the water doing an AOW has nothing to do with anything. They are a business and that is their business......training divers. Now if the site is not appropriate then I agree you have a legitimate beef but a diver that is headed for their AOW should already have a skill or two under their "weight belt" and should be at least reasonably competent divers. If this was an OW class being held at the site (which I only know for what I have read and seen here) then that would be a huge deal IMO. AOW not so much.

We lost a diver there 8 days ago and we are already back in the water. We should be learning from this incident, not giving it another shot at happening. STAY WITH YOUR BUDDY is what my instructor pounded in my head almost 5 years ago when I myself was being certified, and here we are, the LDS who enrolled this man into an early grave, holding the same class in the same place! ARE WE SO NAIVE TO HAVE NOT LEARNED THE FIRST TIME!

Seriously??? You are already sending the shop to the Gallows? You have no idea what actually happened. Again, an AOW candidate should already be a diver with certain skills. Yes they require observation under instruction but they should be capable divers already. I suppose you would only be happy if the shop closed their doors forever and hung their head in shame? Give me a break.

Again, I am no person to judge. I have messed up plenty of times, in the water and out. I am NOT pointing fingers, just pointing facts that anger me to say the least. I do not know what happened to Tim. I do not think knowing what happened to him is going to change anything, he is gone and that is the point.

....let's recap......

.........THIS IS NOT THE PLACE TO HOLD AN AOW CLASS FOR THOSE WHO DO NOT HAVE AT LEAST 50+ DIVES UNDER THEIR BELT! (AGAIN JUST MY OPINION)!!!

.........We should be learning from this incident, not giving it another shot at happening.

.........and here we are, the LDS who enrolled this man into an early grave

.........ARE WE SO NAIVE TO HAVE NOT LEARNED THE FIRST TIME!

Not judging or pointing fingers...........

.........I do not know what happened to Tim.

Key point above

Mistakes were obviously made (at least one would think there were since a diver has been lost) but nobody knows what happened. Mourn the diver's loss if you wish but get off the horse before trying to lambaste the shop for what they may or may not have done. This area of the board is for learning and not to be used as a medium to deliver a message of hatred. If you have an issue with the shop, take it up in person with them and leave it out of this thread.

 

[Jax]

Thanks, ScubaSteve . . .

I am saddened at the emotional posts that people write after a death with a dive op. The LDS should quit, go out of business???

So, due to one person's death -- and we do not know what happened -- The owner and family should quit and be unemployed? And any employees of the LDS should be unemployed? And the instructors that relied on the op should lose their support?

Those of you that state the dive op should quit or who are surprised that the shop is still out working are not thinking straight. Losing a customer, many times a friend, is extraordinarily hard on the dive op and the instructor and staff. It does not matter if you are 100% cleared of responsibility, you are left questioning (torturing) yourself with "Could I have?", "If only I had . .", and a myriad of other self-doubts. But other people depend on you, and life must go on.

If there is one lesson we should all take away from this, it's compassion for the operation and people directly involved. No one goes out to have someone die on their watch. Sometimes mistakes are made; sometimes it is God's Will and there isn't a blanking thing that could be done.

Let's not do the blame game, okay? And if you don't understand this, go find someone who had an employee or a service member die while in their care. You might 'get it' then.

 

[RangerTec]

As for my other thoughts (and yes just my opinion, I am not looking to start arguments/disagreements, just need to get this off my chest) about how things have played out in the dive community (at least to me) here in Phoenix after this incident...

Then what are you trying to do?

The thing that makes my stomach turn is overhearing that the other two boats were from the LDS that Tim was doing his AOW with...on the "Old Dam" DOING THE SAME CLASS THEY JUST LOST A MAN 8 DAYS AGO IN! I have been to the "Old Dam" with the Scubateers plenty of times to know that THIS IS NOT THE PLACE TO HOLD AN AOW CLASS FOR THOSE WHO DO NOT HAVE AT LEAST 50+ DIVES UNDER THEIR BELT! (AGAIN JUST MY OPINION)!!!

I was on one of the other two boats and we were doing a Tec-Trimix class not an AOW. Bill should know because he deco'd on our line but as he stated chose not to comment.

We lost a diver there 8 days ago and we are already back in the water. We should be learning from this incident, not giving it another shot at happening. STAY WITH YOUR BUDDY is what my instructor pounded in my head almost 5 years ago when I myself was being certified, and here we are, the LDS who enrolled this man into an early grave, holding the same class in the same place! ARE WE SO NAIVE TO HAVE NOT LEARNED THE FIRST TIME!

Do you know exactly what happened? Were you there? No? Then please don't make comments about an incident you know nothing about.

Again, I am no person to judge. I have messed up plenty of times, in the water and out. I am NOT pointing fingers, just pointing facts that anger me to say the least. I do not know what happened to Tim. I do not think knowing what happened to him is going to change anything, he is gone and that is the point.

Sure looks like you are and sorry, those are not facts.

I pray for his homecoming so his family and friends have the closure they deserve. I also pray for those who were there that day, I cant imagine this has been an easy time for them too.

Amen. About the smartest thing you have said.

Posts like this make me feel all warm and fuzzy being part of the dive community, kinda like I p'd in my wetsuit.

 

[RangerTec]

Thanks for your comments,

I was one of the searchers on the dive boat to the West. We were the ones conducting the search. We were searching in depths to 214ffw and viz was 10-15 feet. We managed to eliminate some key areas and we will be coordinating with other members of the search team to make sure we don't duplicate search areas.

I am happy that all divers, support, crew and bottom divers, returned safely but am obviously bummed that we did not locate Tim. We will keep looking and will work to develop and maintain a well organized search.

As for the other boats, I am not able to comment on that or maybe I just don't want to..........

Stay safe, keep your teams together, we don't want another incident

 

[IDS_Bill]

Stay safe, keep your teams together, we don't want another incident

Thanks - easy to get separated down there as evidenced yesterday!

 

[synctek]

Agreed - My family and I dove Saturday the 23rd. The viz at 25' was less than 5 feet near the spillway. We stayed in the cove and above the 30' mark.

The poor viz is a good reminder of what MSCO is up against.

 

[cruiser]

First and foremost, my prayers go out to Tim's family and friends. When I heard about what happened last Saturday at Lake Pleasant, my heart sunk in my chest. The thought of one of our own having to leave the world in such a way is almost unbearable. Although I did not know him personally, I feel connected in a way I am sure at least a few other divers do. We love to dive. It has become a passion of mine and I am saddened that this too is/could have been a passion of Tim's as well. My heart goes out to everybody involved/affected by this tragedy.

As for my other thoughts (and yes just my opinion, I am not looking to start arguments/disagreements, just need to get this off my chest) about how things have played out in the dive community (at least to me) here in Phoenix after this incident...

Today I was on a personal boat with my dive buddy, leaving the North Marina, and saw such a site. Heading to a spot near the back of the lake to dive, I spotted three boats, anchored over the "Old Dam" about three hundred feet apart from each other, one on one side, two on the other. I recognized one to be the local dive biz (the boat I do believe Tim was on), and the other two, not so recognizable. I past by as it was non of my biz what/who/when/where/why they were there.

Later after our dives (viz was to be expected therefore not the best lake diving I have done in my past), I came back and saw a few fellow divers at Vista, stopping by to pay a quick visit.

Apparently a search was going on today for Tim is what I collected. I feel a great sense of gratitude for those who volunteer their time to make sure the depths of Lake Pleasant was NOT Tim's final resting ground....

The thing that makes my stomach turn is overhearing that the other two boats were from the LDS that Tim was doing his AOW with...on the "Old Dam" DOING THE SAME CLASS THEY JUST LOST A MAN 8 DAYS AGO IN! I have been to the "Old Dam" with the Scubateers plenty of times to know that THIS IS NOT THE PLACE TO HOLD AN AOW CLASS FOR THOSE WHO DO NOT HAVE AT LEAST 50+ DIVES UNDER THEIR BELT! (AGAIN JUST MY OPINION)!!!

We lost a diver there 8 days ago and we are already back in the water. We should be learning from this incident, not giving it another shot at happening. STAY WITH YOUR BUDDY is what my instructor pounded in my head almost 5 years ago when I myself was being certified, and here we are, the LDS who enrolled this man into an early grave, holding the same class in the same place! ARE WE SO NAIVE TO HAVE NOT LEARNED THE FIRST TIME!

Again, I am no person to judge. I have messed up plenty of times, in the water and out. I am NOT pointing fingers, just pointing facts that anger me to say the least. I do not know what happened to Tim. I do not think knowing what happened to him is going to change anything, he is gone and that is the point.

I pray for his homecoming so his family and friends have the closure they deserve. I also pray for those who were there that day, I cant imagine this has been an easy time for them too.

One diver's death at a site is no reason to make training at that site off limits, provided it's an appropriate area for the class being taught. As painful as it is to lose a fellow diver, life (and classes) go on. And the anger that you experienced at seeing the classes being conducted is quite common in grief recovery.

 

[Dive-aholic]

What relevance does the class have to do with anything. The fact that they were back in the water doing an AOW has nothing to do with anything. They are a business and that is their business......training divers. Now if the site is not appropriate then I agree you have a legitimate beef but a diver that is headed for their AOW should already have a skill or two under their "weight belt" and should be at least reasonably competent divers. If this was an OW class being held at the site (which I only know for what I have read and seen here) then that would be a huge deal IMO. AOW not so much.



Seriously??? You are already sending the shop to the Gallows? You have no idea what actually happened. Again, an AOW candidate should already be a diver with certain skills. Yes they require observation under instruction but they should be capable divers already. I suppose you would only be happy if the shop closed their doors forever and hung their head in shame? Give me a break.



....let's recap......






Not judging or pointing fingers...........



Key point above

Mistakes were obviously made (at least one would think there were since a diver has been lost) but nobody knows what happened. Mourn the diver's loss if you wish but get off the horse before trying to lambaste the shop for what they may or may not have done. This area of the board is for learning and not to be used as a medium to deliver a message of hatred. If you have an issue with the shop, take it up in person with them and leave it out of this thread.

While I agree with most of your post, I have to comment on your assessment of an AOW student. Many shops encourage students to go right into AOW out of OW. So an AOW student could end up with an AOW card with only 9 dives (4 OW checkout dives and 5 AOW checkout dives). I'm not saying that was the case here, but it is quite common. The AOW certification means nothing more than a diver has been exposed to 5 different attributes of diving, including deep (minimum 61') and navigation.