Missing Diver at Lake Pleasant
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thankyou very much for the info. thats exactly what i was looking for. i have followed accidents like this because they worry me. dont get me wrong, i love to dive and am confident in the water, but i know there are things that i dont know. and when accidents like this happen i try to figure out why and learn from them what i can. when i heard 3rd hand from some one who over heard a conversation, so who knows how true it is, of what happened, then hearing about the one in canada that the guy died while with an instructor, http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ac...ver-death-lake-minnewanka-alberta-canada.html i thought that i need to know what to expect with advanced skills instructors.
thanks again for the advice. now ill stop asking questions and not hijack the thread anymore. thanks, RIP Tim.
thanks again for the advice. now ill stop asking questions and not hijack the thread anymore. thanks, RIP Tim.
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Removed my post as I was nit picking someone's post that has some incorrect and irrelevent info. Not going to stir the pot.
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I understand that it's the manhours being scaled back after Bill mentioned it . . . I just did not understand how you can scale back ONE ROV . . . but now I know it is rented. I wish you guys would see these questions as a quest for understanding, not arguments.
Those of us who are not familiar with Lake Pleasant and its emergency response can only compare what is happening to what we do know. Kind of amazing that a county the size and population of Maricopa doesn't own an ROV . . . .
They do.
divecommunity
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To re post what I said. I didn't mean the county was renting the equipment. If in the event anything should happen to the ROV, it would be costly to replace or repair.
divecommunity
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I think there has been a lot of drama in here. As divers, we should be supporting each other, no matter what happened. There has been senseless arguments. I'm sure the family cringes when they read what has been said and the most important thing we need to remember, is Tim. Thats it! No more. My prayers and thoughts go to the family and the others in the group.
borger.family
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As a family we would like to inform you of what we have been told so that maybe you can help us to recover Tim’s body.
Thank you so much for the support you have shown our family on this forum. Thank you also for your expertise and thoughtful discussion.
We want to thank the M.C.S.O. Lake Patrol Division dive team and Lt. Skinner for their tireless work and long hours. Their dedication and willingness to go above and beyond do not go unnoticed. On Tuesday we were told that they were continuing the search Wednesday because the dive team decided that they wanted to finish looking in the area where Tim was most likely located before taking a much needed break.
At the end of the day on Wednesday we received a call from the lead detective saying that there were technical difficulties with the R.O.V. getting snagged that day. He did not give us any information on how much area had been covered in the search and did not let us know if they had finished looking at the area they mentioned.
He then told us that the search from here on out would be conducted when they have time. They might search tomorrow and they might not search until next month. We have no idea. When the search is conducted in the future it will be a part of their training exercises. These training exercises will be focused on finding Tim’s body.
This is very hard to take after reading the scubaboard and seeing all the help and expertise that is near by and willing. Much more infuriating is the other significant help that has been refused due to “liability concerns.” The C.A.P. board offered their R.O.V., their expertise, and their resources to help find the body. This help has been declined.
At this point we would very much like his body recovered so that we can be given closure.
- The Borger Family
Thank you so much for the support you have shown our family on this forum. Thank you also for your expertise and thoughtful discussion.
We want to thank the M.C.S.O. Lake Patrol Division dive team and Lt. Skinner for their tireless work and long hours. Their dedication and willingness to go above and beyond do not go unnoticed. On Tuesday we were told that they were continuing the search Wednesday because the dive team decided that they wanted to finish looking in the area where Tim was most likely located before taking a much needed break.
At the end of the day on Wednesday we received a call from the lead detective saying that there were technical difficulties with the R.O.V. getting snagged that day. He did not give us any information on how much area had been covered in the search and did not let us know if they had finished looking at the area they mentioned.
He then told us that the search from here on out would be conducted when they have time. They might search tomorrow and they might not search until next month. We have no idea. When the search is conducted in the future it will be a part of their training exercises. These training exercises will be focused on finding Tim’s body.
This is very hard to take after reading the scubaboard and seeing all the help and expertise that is near by and willing. Much more infuriating is the other significant help that has been refused due to “liability concerns.” The C.A.P. board offered their R.O.V., their expertise, and their resources to help find the body. This help has been declined.
At this point we would very much like his body recovered so that we can be given closure.
- The Borger Family
borger.family
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Lake Pleasant search for missing diver delayed again
by Daniel Jacka and Clare Hahne - Oct. 22, 2010 12:02 PM
The Arizona Republic
Weather on Friday again shut down efforts to search for a Phoenix man who went missing last weekend while scuba diving at Lake Pleasant in Peoria.
Rescue crews with the Sheriff's Office have been unable to search the past four days due to rain.
"It's pouring up there," Jeff Sprong, a spokesman for Maricopa County Sheriff's Office, said Thursday morning.
That rain continued Friday.
Timothy Borger, 48, did not resurface when he and a small group dove into the water about noon Saturday. Sprong said that rescue teams had been using a boat with a robot that is submerged and uses sonar and an underwater camera. He said the robot can go much deeper into the lake than divers could.
Because of debris and dangers in the water, the robot only has 1 foot of visibility, making the search a slow process.
"It's very tedious," Sprong said.
Borger had been diving in the area near a former dam, which contains a lot of concrete, steel and other debris.
Crews hope to resume the search once the weather clears.
Sprong said if the missing diver is not found by the end of the week, the search would be scaled back on Monday, although it would continue.
Alexander Foote contributed to this report.
by Daniel Jacka and Clare Hahne - Oct. 22, 2010 12:02 PM
The Arizona Republic
Weather on Friday again shut down efforts to search for a Phoenix man who went missing last weekend while scuba diving at Lake Pleasant in Peoria.
Rescue crews with the Sheriff's Office have been unable to search the past four days due to rain.
"It's pouring up there," Jeff Sprong, a spokesman for Maricopa County Sheriff's Office, said Thursday morning.
That rain continued Friday.
Timothy Borger, 48, did not resurface when he and a small group dove into the water about noon Saturday. Sprong said that rescue teams had been using a boat with a robot that is submerged and uses sonar and an underwater camera. He said the robot can go much deeper into the lake than divers could.
Because of debris and dangers in the water, the robot only has 1 foot of visibility, making the search a slow process.
"It's very tedious," Sprong said.
Borger had been diving in the area near a former dam, which contains a lot of concrete, steel and other debris.
Crews hope to resume the search once the weather clears.
Sprong said if the missing diver is not found by the end of the week, the search would be scaled back on Monday, although it would continue.
Alexander Foote contributed to this report.
I mean no disrespect, but I'd like to present a different view on this. It sounds like the local officials have already spent tens of thousands of dollars in resources conducting this search. While these public servants are conducting the search they are prevented from being able to do their usual duties of patrolling the lake. Things have probably been slow because it has been midweek, but the weekend is now here and lake patrol is necessary to prevent other incidents from occurring. I spent many weekends at Lake Pleasant and weekends can be pretty hectic.
As for sending divers in the water, Lake Pleasant reaches depths in the 250'+ range. While training guidelines allow for open circuit diving in this depth range, it's really better suited to closed circuit diving. Open circuit divers can only stay in that depth range for a limited time and they will still have 3-4 times decompression obligation over bottom time, much of that in cold water. Usual bottom time at this depth is usually no more than 25-30 minutes.
While I understand the family's desire for closure, where do we draw the line on costs and the safety of the rescuers?
As for sending divers in the water, Lake Pleasant reaches depths in the 250'+ range. While training guidelines allow for open circuit diving in this depth range, it's really better suited to closed circuit diving. Open circuit divers can only stay in that depth range for a limited time and they will still have 3-4 times decompression obligation over bottom time, much of that in cold water. Usual bottom time at this depth is usually no more than 25-30 minutes.
While I understand the family's desire for closure, where do we draw the line on costs and the safety of the rescuers?
sardiverdan
Contributor
I am sure the last thing this family wants is to witness another tragic loss. Dive-aholic is spot on for this dive. Depending on your DECO profile, the average diver is going to burn almost 200cf of mix for a 15 minute bottom time at that depth and then endure about 85 minutes of deco. That profile does not leave much in the area of a search. While many people might be trained to dive deep, diving through rubble and twisted rebar becomes a whole diffrent story. As I stated before, without a last seen point this recovery is very difficult. I am not there; however, I hope that whoever takes it upon themseves to get a group of divers together, they select only the best and well trained they can find and not let just anyone with a C-card join the effort. I would at least attempt to speak with the MCSO dive unit and get a better idea of the area that they have already searched. Again be careful out there and remember SAFETY, SAFETY, SAFETY.
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