Minimum Nitrox age

[padiscubapro]

Can someone tell me why… the certification for Nitrox is at 15?

Was it an insurance deal…?
Or did the agencies just decide… we’ll just wait till they hit 15 and have their Ow certification?

Has anyone asked for and received a waiver on this topic (strange as it may seem?)

My step son will be 14 this summer and has been diving with us since he was eleven. He is Jr. Advanced Open water diver and only dives with us. Last summer he dove with us in Mexico and had a blast. We are considering a trip but I would really like us all on the same breathing gas (gee doesn’t that make sense.) His mother is PADI Master Instructor and I am a NAUI Instructor Trainer (retired.) Gear is not an issue, certification would not be an issue (if allowed.)
Instead it is an age thing…

I would not expect the outfitter to make special accommodations.
But under the situation it would be best for all parties if he is on Nitrox with us.

Again is there a defined reason?

Depth is not an issue- we impose far stricter limitations than the agencies.
And development would be nothing but an excuse.
He plays football as a defensive lineman.
If anything it has to be rough on him that both is parents are instructors.

Again any thoughts would be sincerely appreciated.
Gracias, Andrew

ANDI has 2 junior Nitrox ratings for ages 12-16 and can be converted to a full rating after age 16

 

[Thalassamania]

Frankly I suspect it would be better if kids stayed shallow and used NITROX exclusively.

 

[Crazyduck]

Joe,
Thanks- thats good to know.
See you at Rebreatherworld.

Andrew

ANDI has 2 junior Nitrox ratings for ages 12-16 and can be converted to a full rating after age 16

 

[TxHockeyGuy]

Frankly I suspect it would be better if kids stayed shallow and used NITROX exclusively.

Good point.

 

[jviehe]

Can someone tell me why… the certification for Nitrox is at 15?

Was it an insurance deal…?
Or did the agencies just decide… we’ll just wait till they hit 15 and have their Ow certification?

Has anyone asked for and received a waiver on this topic (strange as it may seem?)

My step son will be 14 this summer and has been diving with us since he was eleven. He is Jr. Advanced Open water diver and only dives with us. Last summer he dove with us in Mexico and had a blast. We are considering a trip but I would really like us all on the same breathing gas (gee doesn’t that make sense.) His mother is PADI Master Instructor and I am a NAUI Instructor Trainer (retired.) Gear is not an issue, certification would not be an issue (if allowed.)
Instead it is an age thing…

I would not expect the outfitter to make special accommodations.
But under the situation it would be best for all parties if he is on Nitrox with us.

Again is there a defined reason?

Depth is not an issue- we impose far stricter limitations than the agencies.
And development would be nothing but an excuse.
He plays football as a defensive lineman.
If anything it has to be rough on him that both is parents are instructors.

Again any thoughts would be sincerely appreciated.
Gracias, Andrew

Not ALL 15 year olds can handle the more advanced concepts and risks involved in nitrox. Since the course is marketed to everyone it effectively has to have minimum standards for ALL children, not just the smart ones.

So, YOURE 15yr old may be perfectly fine learning and using nitrox, but I know some 18 year olds I wouldnt trust. Same thing with the drinking age for example, or any age limit. Its supposed to cover everyone, and everyone is different.

 

[Thalassamania]

Not ALL 15 year olds can handle the more advanced concepts and risks involved in nitrox. Since the course is marketed to everyone it effectively has to have minimum standards for ALL children, not just the smart ones.

So, YOURE 15yr old may be perfectly fine learning and using nitrox, but I know some 18 year olds I wouldnt trust. Same thing with the drinking age for example, or any age limit. Its supposed to cover everyone, and everyone is different.

Since they have to dive with a certified diver (I assume parent or parent’s designee) which of the remaining two critical advanced learning objectives left in their control do you think they might fail to master, “breathe in” or “breathe out?”

 

[Crazyduck]

Good Question-
Why would I want someone on my dive team with the same breathing gas?

1. First it will effect the NDL (No Deco Limit) times for the dive.
So, I will be running two sets of times in my head- not the best? My profile for Nitrox 32 and his for air. Keeping in mind- that I am responsible for him and his dive.
I want us all on the same gas- same profile I can extrapolate the dive at any point.

2. Nitrogen is the element that generates your dive tables, and affects us directly.
Why should he be forced to breathe air when we already know the benefits of Nitrox? That’s like treating like a second class citizen.

3. Plus, he can use my Uwatec Smartcom dive computer (my backup computer) and I am tuned into the beeps that computer makes- and it makes plenty of beeps… and it is conservative as heck. Ask any owner about the dreaded beeps…

4. It is not the first dive of the day it is the build up of dives and the curve of the ascent.

5. While petty- if he has to bailout to me- it is in his benefit that I am on Nitrox 32, but then if his computer dies- my profile will not work for air. While it may be a minor variance and we would have him plan his dive on air- we still need to know the basic square profile of his dive. I do this dive planning now and he dives a Suunto air computer.

6. Nitrox benefits you at any depth. There is an area were you find the greatest slide or differential but please keep in mind that at that level your Oxygen exposure is running up at a faster rate. Please refer to you NOAA Oxygen exposure tables for the difference in oxygen exposure for differing Partial Pressure of oxygen. This specifically gets into part pressures gas exposures.

Examples- Diving Nitrox 32

70ft, PPO2- 1.0, Time- 30 minutes, O2 Epxosure- 10% of daily single exposure
111ft, PPO2- 1.4, Time- 30 minutes, O2 Epxosure- 20% of daily single exposure

I am responsible for his diving and his exposure, it makes life easier on me plus he gets the benefit of diving nitrox. Really at home it’s not a big deal. You show up at the dive shop and get you tanks filled. The problem arises when you go on vacation and the DM asks to see his Nitrox card- really his Nitrox card will be stuck between my ears.

There is nothing like when the three of us dive together. It’s such a great shared experience.

Regards, Andrew

I don't know where junior OW ends. But if I recall you're supposed to keep youngsters to a max depth of 60 ft. I realize there are still benefits at that depth and that I don't have my nitrox tables in front of me, but how much benefit is nitrox at 60 ft? If I recall the real benefit is around the 80-100 ft mark. Maybe this has something to do with it.

 

[Thalassamania]

I'd suggest that you both dive nitrox and use air tables. At least that's what I was orginaly intending. Take the advantage as extra margin rather than as extra time.

This whole thing points up the rather idiotic marketing that's gone on since the industry "discovered" devil-gas.

 

[cmay]

Good Question-

I am responsible for his diving and his exposure, it makes life easier on me plus he gets the benefit of diving nitrox.
Regards, Andrew

HE should be responsible for HIS diving and HIS exposure. Not trying to start a fight, and I agree with your other points.

As for the age limit, they had to pick some number and they probally chose 15 to follow along the Junior OW lines. In reality, they are probally 12 year olds that are fully capable of Nitrox cert, (as well as OW. AOW, etc.) but there are alot of others that lack the responsibility and understanding to be allowed anywhere near SCUBA Equip. With that said, most all training is designed with the "weakest link" in mind, often resulting in the misfortune of the more qualified.

Just my $0.02

 

[diveblondy]

Well, since this is my child we've been discussing - I thought I'd give my $0.02.

While he is responsible for his own dives and keeping up with his profiles – Andrew and I are the ultimate responsibility in anything concerning him. While my son is like most kids today – the concepts and procedures are easy to learn; however the level of fear that keeps most adults safe, kids lack for some time. Their fearlessness, while not their fault, is a huge factor in junior level restrictions. Thus, parents &/or their adult buddies are just as responsible for them.

I agree that not all junior divers are ready for mixed gas, some were never ready of Jr. ow – and you are probably also correct that they were figuring in the weakest link in choosing the age.

My child however is very capable of learning and understanding mixed gases and PPO2 concepts. I am glad to see that SDI gives us that option before the age of 15. I think if at the age of 14, starting their high school years, they are capable of taking AP (advanced placement) courses receiving college credits while in high school – they are perfectly capable of learning mixed gas procedures. I think a lot of them are much more capable than a lot of adults. Just as in with ow, they accept what you say at face value – not much questioning you why – they accept it because that's what you said.

Ultimately, as with any course, the instructor has the final decision whether to hand anyone a certification and I would expect the same thing with my child.

Heather