Minimalist versus "Train as you Fight" . . . Which way do you go?

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Jax

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[hijack]Thank you guys for all of this information and opinion -- It's like being mentored by the whole world!!!! Lots to think about and consider. [/hijack]

:hugs:

:focus:
 

Jax

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The truth is usually somewhere nearer the middle. So is it "deftly applying practiced routines to the problem at hand while assessing the results with a functional brain"?

:thumb: That bears repeating!
 
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Tienuts

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Exposure protection changes, it has to; you can't use the same suit here in Hawaii and at the North Pole; and that effects your mask choice as well as weight-belt type and placement as well as the fin choice, which is also a function of single, double (or more) tanks that depend on the dive, and the number/placement of regulators is, to some degree, dictated by the tank(s). So what stays the same? Well ... everything else.:D

I disagree. Nothing changes when I go from wet to dry, even my fins stay the same.

I guess I can't think of a diving situation where split-second automatic responses are called for underwater. I prefer slowly moving from one task to the next and when something goes wrong ... I stop, think and then s l o w l y fix it. By and large I believe that, "speed kills."

Here's an example - When I started CCR, I had just finished my OC trimix. I had done OOA drills ad nauseum. About 10 hours into my CCR diving, I was approached by a OOA diver, and my first reaction was to donate my long hose. Except I was on CCR, and I ended up pulling my DSV out of my mouth, flooding the loop in the process. Thankfully, I didn't have a deco obligation, so it wasn't a big deal, but I've never dove OC again since then.
 

Thalassamania

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Thalassamania raised a disturbing thought, mindless reliance on standard practiced responses may be fatal.

Simply thinking through everything is completely unacceptable also, or we could all learn to be divers just by reading books.

The truth is usually somewhere nearer the middle. So is it "deftly applying practiced routines to the problem at hand while assessing the results with a functional brain"?

To me, this would imply a greater weight on the "minimalist" side of Jax's question.
Has been fatal.

Thinking something through (complete with previsualization and such) is a mite different from just reading a book in the abstract. There was an interesting experiment done a few decades back, if anyone out there knows the reference I'd love to have it, having lost it years ago. Anyway, a group of people who had never played basketball were taught to shoot layups. Then for a few weeks half the group practiced shooting layups while the other half sat in a meditative surround and visualized making layups. Then the two groups were brought together and tested on their ability to successful shoot an undefended layup. The visualizers significantly outscored the practicers. Weird, huh?

Practice, especially gear manipulation, is important. Such practice should go to the core solutions of problems, however. For example, I do not think it sufficient to discard your primary, tuck your chin, and bite into your auxiliary. I think you need to practice reaching back to where your IP hose attaches to the first stage and then follow it all the way to where ever you place your auxiliary, and then bite into it. Make the same sort of extension to the core solution with all exercises and never practice in a fashion that is dependent on your method of securing the piece ot gear to your rig. That's my view if it.

I think that a minimalist approach to gear selection is very worthwhile.
 

GrumpyOldGuy

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I disagree. Nothing changes when I go from wet to dry, even my fins stay the same.

Here's an example - When I started CCR, I had just finished my OC trimix. I had done OOA drills ad nauseum. About 10 hours into my CCR diving, I was approached by a OOA diver, and my first reaction was to donate my long hose. Except I was on CCR, and I ended up pulling my DSV out of my mouth, flooding the loop in the process. Thankfully, I didn't have a deco obligation, so it wasn't a big deal, but I've never dove OC again since then.

While you would blame the flooding on using different gear, I could also chalk it up to reacting without thinking. If I was really harsh, I would toss out the old "you are using gear to replace skill " slogan.
 

Hallmac

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The Army has a saying, "Train as you will fight."
Is this the same army as "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"?

I have yet to see anything the army says actually put into use. Equipment is changed as needed, added to or taken from one to another, picked up or drop as necessary.

Training is given on equipment use that is never used but might be in certain situations.

Flexibility, proper training, and experience is the key.

My kits change for the mission
 

lowviz

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............//.......... I think you need to practice reaching back to where your IP hose attaches to the first stage and then follow it all the way to where ever you place your auxiliary, and then bite into it. Make the same sort of extension to the core solution with all exercises and never practice in a fashion that is dependent on your method of securing the piece ot gear to your rig.......//........

New skill/drill.

............//........ Make the same sort of extension to the core solution with all exercises ........//.......

-noted.
 

Thalassamania

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Lowviz, as you modify your practice regimen I'd love to hear about what you find that you find that you change.
 

RTee

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Jax, thanks for asking such a great question. I think that the responses say a lot about the diver and how the diver views and relates to the environment as well as degree of rigidity vs. flexibility in thinking.
It is hard to argue with the Army's viewpoint when speaking of equipment training and doctrine (well maybe, some do:D). It works, even if overkill at times. The Army appoach is a "one size fits all" approach. Diving is not a combat. Recreational diving is a sport whose incidence of injuries is low compaired to many sports. Therefore, I believe that there is room for variation.
However, I do appreciate that the more technically challenging the dive, the more standardization is important.
All said - I don't drink the Koolaid (only 1 right way thinking). I believe that there is room for variation. For my diving, there are basics that remain stable such as how I set up my reg, though I do switch out regs; I dive BP/w though the wing size may change; and there are certain things I carry on every dive - lights (number and type varies), compass, two computers, same dive tool, same fins, different suits. Things tend to be in the same place as well. However, I think I fall more to the minimalist side of the spectrum unless diving with new divers or students. My recreational warm water set-up is very minimal. It is an Oxy 18lb wing, SS travel plate, deluxe harness, medium weight pockets that holds up to 5 pounds as I always wear at least my 4/3 wetsuit, DR pull dump inflator hose with Air 2. Still I use the same dive knife in the same spot, same fins, carry lights the same way and use the same mask.

Diveprof...I am a tactical aviator and I would beg to differ with your comment one size fits all. In fact there are times that we will adapt particular equipment for particular missions or flights however, the basic platform does not change nor does the flying procedures, crew duties, look out, checklist, etc.

If I refer to Jax`s question or query, my basic configuration (back plate/wg/webbing, can light, pouches with accessories (back-up lights, knife, spare mask, SMB with reel, etc) and where I clip my camera when I bring it) remains pretty much the same notwithstanding if I am diving BP/Wg Single cylinder or my SS BP/Wg with doubles. What may change will be thermal protection (drysuit, 7mm, 3mm), weight (adapted to config/thermal protection), number of cylinders (single, doubles, and stage bottles).
 
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