Mindanao December

[chip104]

Maybe this is why Paul has been silent to date.

Or maybe because he sees the utter crap that is posted by you and circle jerk friends about the situation. If you want to talk to him, you know where he is. Don't instigate him on this forum. Pathetic.

 

[chip104]

A lot of people care for this area of ours down here and they are trying their best to protect it and prevent it from being ruined. Unfortunately, others are just trying to cash in on the situation. Things change and it not over till its over.

...and others are refusing dialogue, not getting involved, and not getting educated about the process. I wonder who's the real loser.

Ignorance is bliss.

 

[chip104]

Codman, if a coal fired power plant needs to be built in Southern Mindanao, ( I am not saying that one needs to be built), there is many other areas where it can be built that are not so important to the marine environment. Southern Mindanao has very few coral reefs left that have not been damaged or destroyed. They want to build the coal fired power plant adjacent to the best and most acessable coral reef and wall left in the area.

I see, let someone else's backyard deal with it. As long as you have your piece of reef, nothing else matters. Have you proposed other sites to the project group? What was the outcome?

 

[chip104]

Mike, It was meant towards Chip and Codman, as I know you are based pretty much over here, and I don't know is BC still a part of Canada?

I'm not sure if Codman and Chip have spent any time down at Paul's place, and if so, then please excuse me, as it's a very pretty spot looking over a pristine reef.

you shouldn't make comments if you don't know what you're talking about.

Second, if you think I'm preachy then you don't understand why I'm posting at all. Funny how you note Codman and I, as we're both trained to ask critical questions and analyze viewpoints. Those who have posted opposing views about the power plant have offered us no detailed explanation about the situation, half-assed action points, and no satisfactory answers. It's just one big bitchfest. As a forum reader, it really sheds light on the level of intellect and how serious they are with the situation.

World Wide Diver and Jr. DM and Paul are all my friends, and they are all great people and the type of people I would sit down to dinner with, go diving with, and do whatever for them. This is their 'backyard' what they are talking about and it's a very emotionally charged issue. With that said, maybe Chip and Codman have the wrong idea about WWD? WWD certainly does not 'mince words' when it comes to this issue. I might have worded it differently, but that is me, and everyone has a right to their opinion.

Sure, trying to instigate Paul on an online forum....let's not even go into his previous posts. I know all I need to know about WWD & Co and what the actual locals think of them (ie actual locals are not foreigners who migrate there and try to install western values). If he doesn't mince his words he can go tell Paul what he thinks in person.

Mike, assuming you are still in Lembeh, get that flight to Davao and drop on down to Tinoto point and check out the reef, and the area where the proposed coal power plant is going to be built, you might get a better feel for what is really going on there and the diving is great, not Lembeh, but Tinoto great!

I agree. But if you only talk to one side, you only get one answer. That's a failure to "get a better feel for what is really going on there." Now have you asked the jeepney drivers, the security guards, the trikie drivers, the clergymen, the business owners, or the socialites up at the highlands... about the power plant? What do they think? If you can not answer me that, then you have no right to call me out as being preachy.

 

[jr.dm]

Hello Codman how about another site for the Fing coal fired power plant. You keep going on about development, well it can be happen in marginal areas and then protect the best areas. Maybe get away from the comfy giant screen TV and help people fight this thing and have development too. Just listening to the COnAL line and rolling over does not cut it dude. Also when its all said and done, the little poor people are not going to get ****. For example Northern Mindanao, that area has had good "cheap" power for 40 years and all the "industries" that go with it, steel plant, cement plant, smelters and all. How much better of are the common people there? They got F-all.

 

[chip104]

I did not know I had gotten so controversial.

First, let me address the militarized question. Since they moved in across to street from us, I have not seen a single military guy roaming around. I know they are there but have not seen them. I spoke to the battalion commander and we talked about why they chose this spot. He said that our area in maasim is considered to be the rear of his area of responsibility. This means there is no apparent danger in this area. His school of thought is you put your HQ in this area so it is in no danger. This ensures that the supply train and all other administrative functions of the battalion will not be in danger of being cut should some violence erupt at the forward areas.

They do have to put a detachment near the power plant as it only makes sense. This location just makes it easier. If anyone else is willing to invest 500 million dollars or even less, you can be sure that the military will try to protect it. Even our small investment has been given a small police detachment.

I have never guaranteed complete safety for anyone. Only God can do this. I can say however that it is just as safe here as it was six months ago. Nothing has changed. I have a guest right now from Hawaii who takes the public transportation to Gensan at even 830 at night. I maintain that I feel safer walking these streets at 2 am than any major city in the world, maybe excluding the vatican. Last Friday, I drove home at 1030 with my family. Last night at 9 pm. Always unarmed and felt I was in no danger.

Second, I have always told anyone who asks what my position on the power plant is. Anyone who cares to know should just ask me point blank. I do not go around spouting off to anyone who will listen or read. Frankly, I dont see the point in it.

I am in favor big time of the power plant going in next door. All my concerns have been addressed by them. Basically, it boils down to all their emissions will be under not only the Philippine limit but also the World Bank and EU standards. Nox and Sox are within standards. Mercury and all other metals are within standards. CO2 emisions are within standards and even if they do not need to create a carbon sink, they are going to. I do not claim to know more than all the scientists in the world who came up with those standards. They know far more than me and I am not in a position to contradict them. Anyone who does has no proof. So my thinking is if these standards are wrong, then we should change the laws and not stop a law abiding company from helping out the local economy.

The plant will not get any water from the bay or discharge into the bay so thermal pollution is out. Fly ash will be sold to cement plants in Iligan. Electricity prices will go down by 80 centavos. Local taxes are estimated at 40 million a year.

Its not all about the money. I just have seen no proof that it will pollute the environment. There is a plant in the middle of Helsinki and Taipei. I have been to the one in Thailand and the surrounding environment is very clean. All the anti have shown me are pictures of obsolete plants and data from those plants. I feel that this is a debate about what might happen in the future, both sides are just opinions.

There were many old coal plants in the US and Europe. They have done more to damage the ozone than anyone else. They were afforded this stepping stone to develop. Now that Clean Coal technology exists, we will stop a place like Maasim from developing????

As an aside, there is no such thing as clean coal. Clean coal technology is a term coined to power plants whose emissions are within the standards. As the Brazilian president said just a few days ago, and I paraphrase, I do not want any gringo to tell a brazilian that he has to go hungry so he can sit under a tree. In response to deforestation issues.

Next, we are expanding at LemLunay Resort. We are building 10 more rooms, a swimming pool, a lounge and seminar facilities. This decision to expand was made on 4 things. The power plant, elections coming up, a navy base to be built nearby, and the establishment of the MAKIMA industrial triangle, which encompasses our area. These 4 things just made the time to be ripe to expand. The powerplant people are under no obligation to stay at our place and use our facilities. I hope they will as someone has to pay for our expansion and divers just dont cut it.

Again, I am not trying to change anyones mind. I have never posted my opinion because it is mine and changes nothing when shared. But it seems as if I have been called out so I decided to reply. This is also my last post on the subject because no one is going to change my mind, just as I will never change your minds. My time is better spent completing my construction.

No one has any proof that a power plant will destroy the area. All I can do is to make sure they stick to their commitments on emissions. Because of this i have joined the multi sectoral team to monitor their emissions. Its the least I could do. At least I feel that I am helping to police the power plant. I encourage anyone in this area to do the same, if they feel strongly about it. The monitoring team has the authority to halt their operations if they are not complying with their commitments.

There is no such thing as clean coal, but there is clean enough to help our poor area develop.

Thanks for this Paul. Your whole post is a good read but I bolded the interesting parts for the "preachy" people, like me.

Good on you for getting involved. All the best. I'll let you know when I'm coming down again.

 

[jr.dm]

Hi chip 104, FYI, I and other people have proposed at least 2 other sites. That was even before they declared Tampuan as the proposed site. We are just not pissing in the wind. We are not saying put it in someone elses back yard so we can have are nice reef. By the way Paul has been told in person what we think. The power people are carving up Mindanao for themselves and this is just one little piece of the bull.

 

[jr.dm]

chip104, by the way I am not ignorant. I do get involved, I do dialogue, and I do keep educating myself on the subject. Time will tell who the losers are.

 

[U/Wdiva]

What`s the relevancy of ones location to the question at hand? The effects of this power plant are not limited to this particular area, carbon emission is a global problem. I don`t think anybody wants to deprive the people of Mindanao, and other parts of the PI, of their right to electricity>work places>development etc. the question is more about the choice of energy source and location. In this day and age other sources are available which have far less devastating effects on local and global environment and are available in the PI, such as the sun, wind and wave. Why opt for coal which is polluting and has harmful effects (not only when burnt, but when mined, transported as well as in by products: dust in air and dumping of at sea)?
If the building of the power plant is indeed a need and is done for the benefit of the people, then the way to go about it is to look for the best solution for the long run, not for the quick fix. In the long run those poor people will suffer from more lung disease such as asthma, bronchitis and cancer due to emission of particals and gases, despite filtration and what not that is said to bring it down to EU standards. Will they be rich enough to afford medical treatment? I doubt that. One thing for sure, nobody will be able to pull the plug on the plant should the level of pollution be higher then allowed, at most there will be a slap on the wrist and perhaps a fine which the power plant will have no difficulty in paying, the population however will continue to pay with their health.

Coral reefs are a resource that can generate income-take a look at the Maldives and see how they turn their reefs into $. True this takes time and it requires peace and stability but it will ensure more income for more people in the long run, and peace and stability are desirable regardless.
Further more, the PI being an island nation has a vested interest in cutting down emissions if it wishes to survive beyond today and tomorrow. Read this:Major cities at risk from rising sea level threat - Times Online even if you take it with a grain of salt it still is a very dark cloud.

I hope people and reefs are spared.

 

[CODMAN]

So basically Jr. you are saying that through the whole process of planning, designing, building and then running this power plant, not a single pesos is going to run off into the local economy for the local people? Not a single Peso? That means the governor and his family, and friends are all coming in from another area, are importing all their workers from another area, and will not spend any of their money in this area, thus creating an economical vacuum (sucking out all the resources and spending 0$ in return locally)? Come on !!!!! That,s ridiculous. Projects like this, sooner or later, have financial benefits for the locals (money always trickles down). OK, maybe not as much as you would like, and if the owners/ local politicians are corrupt, I'm sure it's less than it should be. But nonetheless, it's still going to stimulate the local economy, which correct me if I'm wrong, is needed. I'm sure there are financial reasons they chose that spot, and not another. Unless they chose it just to pi$$ off WWD (which I would fully understand ). Are they to choose another less lucrative site (choose to loose $$) just to save a reef? I'm sure you and your friends think they should. And I wish they would too. But they, and I'm sure a lot of people, don't agree on this and would prefer a better economy to a luxurious reef. And if this was a country like Canada (or any other wealthy country), I would be dead mad at them since they have the luxury of an ecological conscience (a good economy). But it's not. It's the Philippines... And there are people there fighting to make a better life for themselves and their family. They have more pressing concerns than the health of the reef you guys dive on regularly...

As an analogy. A poor man that cuts down a 500 year old tree on his land because he needs the $$ to feed himself and his familly, is fully understandable to me (I'd still be sad for the tree, but I understand he need). And I'm surely not going to start militing to stop him from doing it!

So please, don't start preaching yourself because I'm not jumping on your bandwagon. Your oppinions are your own (and thats OK), and you guys are doing what you can to get what you want (that's OK too). But don't shoot other people down because they don't agree 100% or run off and join you in your struggle. Or use this forum for your own "political" means. That is sooo WWDish...

There is good and bad in this project. It's not all black and white... Just like a reef, life just isn't that simple...

Hello Codman how about another site for the Fing coal fired power plant. You keep going on about development, well it can be happen in marginal areas and then protect the best areas. Maybe get away from the comfy giant screen TV and help people fight this thing and have development too. Just listening to the COnAL line and rolling over does not cut it dude. Also when its all said and done, the little poor people are not going to get ****. For example Northern Mindanao, that area has had good "cheap" power for 40 years and all the "industries" that go with it, steel plant, cement plant, smelters and all. How much better of are the common people there? They got F-all.