Might be a stupid question but.....

[_Ralph]

if you see the training as a continuum then the sooner you integrate reserves in to divers thinking the better so i cant see it hurting

Sorry, there was more hiding between my sentence...I was more referring to a cavern certified diver diving thirds... and wanting to drop a bottle in a cavern for their cavern dive if a) team separation, b) double gas failure c) some other scenario.

Since the next course in the Cave curriculum is diving 1/6ths or 1/3 of 2/3rds while going past the cavern zone... and then you progress to thirds...



_R

 

[PfcAJ]

I was taught to drop one Al80 of EAN32 (typical back gas in Florida) per team about 400’ into a cave when diving in a team of 3 within NDL limits and using the rule of 3rds as part of NAUI Cave 1. Just as a backup if things really go pear-shaped and given that statistically most drown within about 400’ or less of a cave’s exit point. Overkill? Perhaps, but not much of an inconvenience so worth it in my opinion. Gets you practice dropping/picking up stages if nothing else, good perpetration for Cave 2 where stage dropping becomes a necessity.

I never got this. What are you gunna do with one stage bottle amongst three dudes?

Rock Paper Scissors? Fight it out with your cut down steak knife? 1st one there gets it? Triple buddy breathe?

 

[RTodd]

Until you get to the point that safety bottles are a necessity that are getting placed in advance of a dive, you should always use the stage and keep the extra gas in your doubles if there is a need or desire to dive more conservative gas limits. I can’t think of a penetration dive that I have done that wasn’t more conservative than 1/3rds in the past 20 years. Now for open water NDL dives diving thirds is pointless in almost all cases.

 

[p_kos]

I never got this. What are you gunna do with one stage bottle amongst three dudes?

Rock Paper Scissors? Fight it out with your cut down steak knife? 1st one there gets it? Triple buddy breathe?

It’s very unlikely that more than one person would need it. The dive is turned at the first sign of trouble and all 3 divers should have planned well enough to have a third of their gas in reserve. That said, sh!t happens and should one person have to make an exit alone and low on gas they tend to run out of gas within that 300-400’ mark statistically, or two diver sharing gas may run into an issue (line trap delay) and not have enough between the two of them, hence the practice. Has this saved any lives? I don’t know but perhaps someone on SB has heard of it. Either way, 1 extra tank is better than none and you can’t have too much gas. I personally would not have a problem with each member dropping a safety bottle but that could make a mess of the line on a busy day.

 

[PfcAJ]

It’s very unlikely that more than one person would need it. The dive is turned at the first sign of trouble and all 3 divers should have planned well enough to have a third of their gas in reserve. That said, sh!t happens and should one person have to make an exit alone and low on gas they tend to run out of gas within that 300-400’ mark statistically, or two diver sharing gas may run into an issue (line trap delay) and not have enough between the two of them, hence the practice. Has this saved any lives? I don’t know but perhaps someone on SB has heard of it. Either way, 1 extra tank is better than none and you can’t have too much gas. I personally would not have a problem with each member dropping a safety bottle but that could make a mess of the line on a busy day.

More reserve on your back eliminates all that. You can share it. You can isolate it. You can monitor it. Its *with you* at all times.

Nonspecific "well it could help if yanno...stuff happens? Dive things. Bad dive things. You know the ones. Right?" kinda highlights that its not a thought out solution. Its just tossing tanks at a nebulous "problem".

Keep it simple.

 

[rjack321]

Not a fan of dropping a "safety 80" just because. Better would be for everyone to dive more conservativity instead of having this lone bottle 400ft. Personally for a dive like that I plan to have enough gas on my person to exit. Dropped gas is not a good backup unless there is no other option.

 

[p_kos]

Not a fan of dropping a "safety 80" just because. Better would be for everyone to dive more conservativity instead of having this lone bottle 400ft. Personally for a dive like that I plan to have enough gas on my person to exit. Dropped gas is not a good backup unless there is no other option.

Once again, everyone has enough gas on their back for themselves and a buddy (rule of thirds). The safety bottle is a backup for your backup, it’s not the main safety plan like some of you make it sound, just more redundancy especially if one team member gets lost and has to exit alone (not likely if everything is done right but obviously not impossible, panic happens despite adequate training occasionally). I’m not saying you have to do this but it can’t hurt. I’m kind of surprised this is getting such a negative response, I guess my course was unconventional in this regard.

 

[kensuf]

1/3rds in cavern now?

_R

Of a single tank, yes. Has been that way forever.

 

[rick00001967]

1/3rds in cavern now?

_R

to be more clear.....yes we of course did discuss "the rule of thirds" during training, along with the required gas planning etc. but if memory serves (it has been awhile) we used 1/6 to execute any training dives.

EDIT: just saw the above post. yes my original training started in single tank bm. but my actual final dives were done in double sm. don't ask. it is complicated haha

 

[Dominick Gheesling]

No one ever died from having extra breathing mix available.