Michigan Charter Boat woes

[ComputerJoe]

(POSTING WARNING...THIS IS ABSOLUTELY A RANTING FROM A GUY HOPING TO START A CHARTER BUSINESS)

Wisconsin, Ohio, Illinois charter boat operators...COME ON DOWN!

There will be plenty of room for you in Michigan when we all go out of business. The DNR has decided to not inspect 6 paks that may be over the 5 ton and have the USCG take care of them. If they are not 5 ton then the operator will need to cough up about $80 to $100 per foot to be inspected by the independent contractor of the States choosing.

So now Michigan charters 5 ton and over will have to be USCG "Documented" vessels ($160 filing fee) and be inspected by the Coast Guard Auxillary, and being documented doesn't cancel the need to also pay for the Michigan boaters registration ($120) that you will still need every 4 years or so. Now it gets fun, since they are now documented vessels you will need a commercial liscense plate to tow them ($400/year), now that our trailers are commercial you will need a CDL liscense ($???) to pull them. Did I mention the TWIC all Captains will need courtesy of the TSA? Just another couple of 200+ mile trips to visit their centers and $150 more out of pocket just to file. Now I expect you all know that none of this comes by just mailing in a form. All with the pleasure of dealing with the delays and bureaucracy of 4 different govermental agencies. So bring your own boats or get your charters in Michigan from operators from another State...it's cheaper that way.

Would the last business to leave Michigan please turn the lights out?

 

[jtivat]

now that our trailers are commercial you will need a CDL liscense ($???) to pull them.

Only if over 26,000LBS otherwise you just need a chauffeur’s license $20.

 

[diver_paula]

I heard (and would like confirmation) that several 'towable' charter operaters had trouble putting their boats in the water last year due to the shallower water depths. & given the lower depths for this year they wouldn't be able to move from one location to another. & would need the added cost of docking if available. (Whitefish Pte as an example.) Also, that at least one charter operator from Munising was moving to the Straits of Mackinaw for the season due to the depths hurting charters in the Munising area.

Any comments or insight from charter operators?

Paula

 

[Busdiver]

I heard (and would like confirmation) that several 'towable' charter operaters had trouble putting their boats in the water last year due to the shallower water depths. & given the lower depths for this year they wouldn't be able to move from one location to another. & would need the added cost of docking if available. (Whitefish Pte as an example.) Also, that at least one charter operator from Munising was moving to the Straits of Mackinaw for the season due to the depths hurting charters in the Munising area.

From what I am hearing out of St. Clair Shores right now, they are looking at higher water levels due to the massive snowfall throughout the state and Canada and the fact there was enough of a freeze on the lakes to minimize evaporation. The city is approving dredging operations but a few of the folks in that industry are not sure the work is going to be required.

Although this winter took it's toll on my mentally, it would be nice to see about four or five straight winters like it to start bringing the water back to it's high level mark. Then again we are finally seeing appropriate water management done here on Lake St. Clair. I am looking forward to seeing some of the new eco-friendly marinas that are being designed (Grosse Pointe Shores/Grosse Pointe Yacht Club).

Bus

 

[SwimJim]

If you examine the history of the Great Lakes as it pertains to lake levels, you will discover that it is definetly cyclical. The only problem of course is that we can only go back a few hundred years. The lake levels right now are comparable to about 1965. They will rise again, it's just a matter of time. I've lived on the shores of Lake Michigan most of my life. I was a kid in '65 and remember the low lake levels well. The were up considerably by '68 and we lost our front yard to the lake in '73 and '85. We also lost it in '52, but thats before I was invented. I saw a real estate flyer printed in 1908 that had a picture of the next beach down from me. In 1908 the lake was lower then it is now. In 1985 the lake was high and the so called people in the know were saying that the lake was going to rise so far it would flood all the way to Madison Wisconsin. These same experts are now saying that the water levels are going to continue to decline. Well, nothings impossible I suppose, but history doesn't back them up.
Low lake levels are a problem on all five lakes. i have no doubt that some charter operations have had to relocate. In the grand scheme of things this is temporary. They will be back. I would be more concerned with the do gooders tampering with mother nature and really screwing things up. Another issue looming is fuel costs. That will force more charters out then anything else.

Jim

 

[ComputerJoe]

I've been looking and found a web site that lays it out very nicely NATDA News Room

If over 10,000 lbs combined weight they are making you get a DOT number. Once you have the DOT number you need to follow FMCSA Saftey regs. This means a daily log book, saftey training, DOT vehicle inspections, annual log reviews.....but no CDL or commercial license or plates. But apparently some non-comercial (hobbists) have been starting to get tickets as well. So hauling your horse trailer to a county fair, or you classic car can cost you even there appears that there is an exception for hobbistsin the law. What do you do when there are budget difficulties? Find a way to ring it out of them.

Lake Superior was down about 20" last summer. I was told by a diver up north that they were telling the Corps of Engineers that the gates on the Power Plant at the Soo were too low. He said they finnally put them back up last fall and by Christmass the water levels were back. I, never in 1000 years, would have thought that Lake Superior would change it's level that quickly but that is apparently what happened. Co-incidentally when I was visiting a friend down the road from me at Christmas and looked out on a bay I have fished all of my life, I was shocked to see things out of the water that were never out of the water in the 60's. Lake Huron was absolutely below it's lowest recorded level it hit back then. Could the raising of the gates in the Soo have lowered Lake Huron or is this just a co-incidence? It makes me wonder what dredging the St Clair river might do. I heard tell that an idea from the 70's is back on the table again. It is a plan to place wier dams along the St Clair to slow the draining of Huron and Michigan.

I talked to Capt. Mike Cook at Whitefish and last year Sheldrake harbor was blocked by a sand bar. As the owner was not in good health nothing was done to clear it. Mike was resorting to anchoring out and only pulling into Whitefish when the weather turned bad to avoid getting ticketed for being a Commercial Vessel in a State Harbor. As a harbor of refuge they can not refuse him a berth when the weather is nasty. Just how long he can avoid getting caught in a bad blow is anyones guess.

 

[diver_paula]

Joe,

BTW - Sorry for the hijack.

Paula

 

[diver_paula]

I just know my club is having a harder time booking charters this year than in the past. For certain charters we've always booked 1 to 1.5 years ahead of time. But those are popular locations on holiday weekends where we need a certain boat. This year we are trying some newer locations (to us) and/or different size boats. It's not going all that smoothly.

Hope others are having luck.
Paula

 

[Divers Incorporated]

I have stuck with the boats year after year and those that are big boats I liked I use again and again... I really think that the Great Lakes could use a few more boats... but they should be run as a business... the costs mentioned above are business costs... complaining about them is like me complaining that I have to pay insurance or renew my PADI Membership... not going to go far. I can give you a couple of great examples of dive boat charter captains/owners and a couple of really bad one... fortunately the really bad ones dont last more than a season or two... unfortuately they strand good people who have paid good money on the beach when we have booked them a year or two in advance and they call and tell us that they will no longer be running charters a week before the trip.

My advice.. pick an area, get to know it well, find interesting things to do in all weathers and get an infrastructure together... the alpena area is crying for a good charter captain... stick with it and become reliable and you will do well.

Good luck with the charter boat business... Let me know when we can use you.

Rich

 

[geoff127]

Lake Superior was down about 20" last summer. I was told by a diver up north that they were telling the Corps of Engineers that the gates on the Power Plant at the Soo were too low. He said they finnally put them back up last fall and by Christmass the water levels were back. I, never in 1000 years, would have thought that Lake Superior would change it's level that quickly but that is apparently what happened. Co-incidentally when I was visiting a friend down the road from me at Christmas and looked out on a bay I have fished all of my life, I was shocked to see things out of the water that were never out of the water in the 60's. Lake Huron was absolutely below it's lowest recorded level it hit back then. Could the raising of the gates in the Soo have lowered Lake Huron or is this just a co-incidence? It makes me wonder what dredging the St Clair river might do. I heard tell that an idea from the 70's is back on the table again. It is a plan to place wier dams along the St Clair to slow the draining of Huron and Michigan.

I talked to Capt. Mike Cook at Whitefish and last year Sheldrake harbor was blocked by a sand bar. As the owner was not in good health nothing was done to clear it. Mike was resorting to anchoring out and only pulling into Whitefish when the weather turned bad to avoid getting ticketed for being a Commercial Vessel in a State Harbor. As a harbor of refuge they can not refuse him a berth when the weather is nasty. Just how long he can avoid getting caught in a bad blow is anyones guess.

Superior has been way down in the last few years, but so are the snow falls. The winter in the Soo last winter was over and the river was already breaking by early March, and I was driving around with just a T-shirt and my windows down in the car by April. However, this winter has been what the locals refer to as "normal," we've broken 100" inches of snow in the Soo, which is still lower than average but closer than the last few years. As a result, Superior is up about 8 inches, per the Army Corps.

The argument that leaving the gates up at the locks holds no water in my understand, no pun intended. There have been natural rapids here for thousands of years, only in the last 100-ish have there even been gates to hold back the lake, but yet there has always been about 20 feet between the lakes. The locks, and power plants, don't hold up the lake, so even with the gates open (which, in the 3 years I've been up here I have never seen them closed or even touching the water, at least for the Sault Edison power canal and the rapids) the lake isn't going to drain and equalize levels with the lower lakes. Sure, if the gates were down maybe the lake levels would be up slightly, but I'm not sure if it would make a difference. However, I'm not a lake expert, so someone else might have some insight into that.

Also, the St. Mary's River isn't down quite as much, at least that's what I've been told by the locals. When I've been diving in the river the water seems to come to a reasonable level for the docks and seawalls, many of which are decades old.

Just my two cents.

-Geoff