Mexico / questions about safety

[Scuba Diver Mexico]

Hello everyone,


In the past months divers traveling to Mexico have asked about the safety situation; people coming to Ensenada to sail for isla Guadalupe to see the great whites, divers going to Vallarta, people headed for the Yucatan peninsula, Mexico City, and so forth.

Yesterday here at SB I was asked by Divebrasil about the safety of visiting La Paz in Baja California Sur in comparison to say Cabo San Lucas. I answered back with my own personal opinion since I happen to be at most of these places during the year.

Now, this morning a good friend of mine from www.cindaq.org at Playa del Carmen sent me an article published in the New York Times about the topic. It is written by Enrique Krauze, a well respected writer and political analyst.

Here is the link


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/24/opinion/24krauze.html?emc=eta1


I thought it would be of interest to many divers here at SB


Happy diving in Mexico !!

 

[cavew0man]

A well-written and eloquent perspective from inside Mexico - thank you.

 

[cave heaven]

we remember Italy during the Red Brigade days ... the press made out that there were gun-toting terrorists on every corner ... unfortunately, stories of violence and despair sell newspapers and make careers. It's nice to see a bit more of a balanced article.

The Riviera Maya is a great place to come on vacation and the cenotes are unique - enjoy, along with great Mexican hospitality.

dive safely,

 

[Scuba Diver Mexico]

Along the same lines,

Hillary Clinton is in DF today and B. Obama will be there very soon.

Lets hope something positive comes out of that .

 

[Oside Jimc]

That's for the link, it's nice to see something that's not hysterical fear mongering.

 

[annlaur]

Mexico's bad reputation in the US has always puzzled me.
10 years ago, I got some severance money and decided to do some travelling. Spent a coupla months at my friends' in California before bussing down to Baja. With the exception of a friend of mine in his 50s who works with Mexicans in Santa Barbara, everyone else was trying to talk me out of it... And my friends are not some closed-minded rednecks who've never been out of the country.

But then there were all there TV shows like NBC Dateline (if I remember correctly) doing stories about how dangerous Mexico was : rapes, murders, drugs, car accidents, kidnappings, theft and so forth !
When I crossed the border, I must say I was a bit weary. 27 yr-old blonde female with a backpack and a very limited Spanish vocabulary. Didn't want to spend time in Tijuana ("bad bad town", they say), so I went straight to the bus station and I bought a second class ticket to Ensenada. Long story short : the bus broke down, we had to get out and walk over to the freeway to catch a 1st class bus, and by the time we go in Ensenada it was pitch dark. Then this man from the bus asked me in broken English if I had a hotel room, I said no, he grabbed my bag and signaled me to follow him. I was scared but had no plan, so just followed his lead. He took me to a hotel, did the check-in stuff with the clerk, shaked my hand and left. Next morning when I checked the prices I realized that this total stranger had bargained with the tenant to get me a discount !

That was my first night in Mexico and I ended up staying almost 2 years in this country.
I'm not gonna say that crime doesn't exist because it does. I worked in Quintana Roo and corruption was a major issue. But after that day I never felt unsafe anywhere in this country, including in Mexico City. Just used basic caution (no expensive jewelry or fancy camera, money and passport on a belt under my clothes, no sexy outfits outside of the beach areas... ), learned the language and local ways, stayed calm and polite... Common sense, really.
I went back in 2005 for 4 months and would love to go back again. I just love this country, its people, its food, its culture...

The one advice I would give to someone wanting to enjoy Mexico (or any other place) at its best: steer clear of the tourist areas and the fancy, expensive all-included resorts. Obviously, those places are more likely to attract people looking to make $$$ off the tourists. That includes waiters and other hotel and restaurant employees who make their money legally (but who may not be the most sincere, "I do this job because I love people" kind of employees), as well as thieves, con artists, gigolos...

One last word about the article : death is an integrant part of Mexican culture, as seen in Dia de los Muertos, la Catrina... I've always viewed it as a way to celebrate life, by reminding us of our mortality. Death is not a taboo there, and whenever someone hangs themselves you see the picture of the hung corpse in the newspaper. Main reason why I seldom opened the "Por Esto".
While I understand the writer's point about how publishing pictures of assassinations plays in favor of the cartels, I also wonder : how would banning pictures of dead people affect Mexican culture in the long run ?

As for the people supplying intel about the cartels to the authorities... Good luck on that one. Every Mexican I've ever met has always given me the same advice : "no matter what, don't go to the police for help, ask someone else". IMO, the problems of Mexico don't lie within its people, but with its corrupted officials.

 

[RonFrank]

I think part of the stigma that US citizens have with MX is due to the huge number of illegal immigrants we find living among us. The fact that these people will do just about anything to leave MX begs the question... why? Another big factor is all the recent gun smuggling INTO MX, and the long time Drug smuggling going mainly into the US.

I've visited MX on many occasions, but mainly boarder towns, or resort towns. I don't think I have a good perspective of the country as a whole. I will say the Cozumel is a VERY nice place to visit, and I found the people friendly, helpful,and accommodating. Ironically I like the natives in Coz better than most immigrants I meet here!

In any event, I certainly have an open mind when it comes to this nation. However I'm rather sick of the illegals in the US. Organized crime in MX, and government corruption are also big problems. Every country has their share of problems, but MX problems seem to be spilling into the US which is one reason many don't like MX. We have enough issues without having to deal with the issues of MX.

 

[annlaur]

Why do Mexicans go to the US ?
Same reason why people from "developping countries" (or whatever the politically correct word is nowadays) migrate to "industrialized countries" : find work and money.

When I used to live and work in Mexico, the minimum pay was about 150 USD a month (working 6 days a week, no benefits). In the meantime, in many areas, real estate prices kept increasing due to the flow of American, Canadian and European expats and big companies buying land.
So of course it makes sense for them to cross the border, work hard for a few years so they can go home, build a house and support their family.

And it also makes sense for the US economy to have illegal workers. You can reread Steinbeck's "Grapes of Wrath", change the word Oakies for Latinos and you'd think the book was written yesterday.
The fruits and veggies you buy at the supermarket have been cropped by illegals being paid less than the legal minimum wage. Many of the houses you live in are built, cleaned or landscaped by illegal workers. Same here in Europe, except most of our immigrants come from Africa, Asia or the Middle-East.

Are they stealing jobs from Americans ?
Maybe (although, do you know anyone that would do those jobs if they didn't absolutely have to?)

Are they a threat to the American economy ?
Only if the crisis becomes so bad that American people actually start looking for employment in those fields, because the illegals do not get minimum wage or benefits, so are cheaper to employ. Otherwise, they actually boost the economy by allowing prices to be relatively low (the day Americans pick up their own fruit and veggies, they might have heart attacks when having to pay for them at Safeways).

Finally, is the US governmant really doing anything against illegal labor ?
I had a boyfriend from Argentina in 2001, extensive traveller. When the crisis hit his country, he moved to LA to work and help out his family for a couple of years. He got arrested three or four times while driving. Not only did he not have a work permit (and every time he was driving a construction van with the name of the company on it), his tourist visa had also expired for months. Everytime the cops told him that the army was recruiting and that if he enrolled he would get papers to stay legally and let him go. He never enrolled and never got deported, just speeding tickets.
If you want to see it for yourself : take a Greyhound bus from San Diego to the North of California. Most people are just illegal latinos going to work in the fields of Salinas, Gilroy, Fresno... (on a side note : on one trip down from San Francisco to LA, I talked to 3 people looking to cross the border to Nevada to escape jail... not Latinos, a car thief and a couple pressed with their 3rd drug charge).
My point is : if the government were actually serious about the threat of illegal labor, why don't they have checkpoints on the buses ? There are checkpoints all over Mexico, Guatemala, Egypt... so I'm guessing a country like the US has the means to do this on the more sensible routes.

PLease do not read this post as American bashing. We have the same "issues" here in France. It's just that I don't buy the "Our problems are due to immigration" line. We get plenty of that over here and I'm sick of it. Always so much easier to blame the other guys for our problems. And politicians know that all too well.

 

[razor]

All

My wife and I finally convinced her brother and sisters (we are all certified) to have Thanksgiving in Mexico (Cozumel) and have 1 giant dive fest and maybe some turkey.

There would have been nine certified divers and 4 others who were going to just work on thier tan.

BUT Somebody read about how dangerous Mexico has become and called a family meeting to discuss. To make a short story long, Mexico has been "delayed" and they are all talking about disney world. Please Help..I need ammo and unbiased information so I can try to salvage this trip.

Thanks

Ray

 

[annlaur]

Ray,

I don't have much ammo to provide except my own personal experience (see post above).
The crimes in Mexico are mainly drug and poverty related, and so occur in the border areas, some poorer states such as Guerrero (on the Pacific side), and Mexico City.

Yucatan is safe, maybe even safer than the surroundings of Disney World (I don't know, I've never been to Florida).

For what it's worth, in the 1998-2000 period, according to a UN report, the USA ranked #8 in total crimes per capita (with a ratio of 80 crimes per 1000 inhabitants), while Mexico was ranked #39 (with a 12.8 per 1000 ratio).

Those stats are old and not quite accurate of the actual crime situation (depend on how crime is defined in each country and only those declared to the police are included in the statistics), just trying to give you some food to help your cause.

PS : here's the link to those STATS
Also print out the assaults, burglaries and rapes per capita sheets from that same site : they're all in favor of Mexico.
However, the murder ratio was higher in MX than in the US in that same timeframe, so you might want to keep those numbers to yourself.

Good luck