Messed up my OW dive - advice for the future please?

[Storker]

If you do the openwater element of the course in a drysuit, you automatically qualify as a drysuit diver

You don't, however, necessarily get a piece of plastic showing that you do I've seen dive centers up here having no issue about renting a drysuit to a customer holding a domestic cert (PADI or CMAS) or another cold-water cert like BSAC, while those holding a cert issued in warm water regions were quizzed, asked for their logbook and/or required to show a drysuit cert card.

We always teach the drysuit theory at the backend of our OD courses, then do pool sessions in drysuits with our students, prior to them moving to openwater.

Not being an instructor, I can only speak about by own OWD class. But we did our pool sessions in wetsuits and were then given a drysuit orientation when we were issued drysuits, followed by instruction both before our OW dives and pretty good follow-up during the first couple of OW dives. I didn't notice anyone having any particular issues with operating the drysuit during either of the six OW dives we did.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

So, about 3m, then. That's a rather murky pool...

If PADI does the same, I guess my OWD instructor was within standards. Good to know.

PADI doesn't give actual numbers for viz. I actually picked up a Secchi disk. I teach 1:2, and for me 5 meters/15 feet is what I'm personally comfortable with at a minimum, given how viz measurements are made. I do plan on making measurements/photographing in every confined water session before I start that day's confined water session.

 

[TMHeimer]

I use suspenders so no pressure of a really tight weight belt (also need integrated wts. of course). Harness may be even better idea.

 

[Nianne]

Yep, you got burned! I would definitely have a chat with the facility manager....just the fact they put you in a dry suit is enough to make me file a complaint.

Why ?

 

[gr8jab]

Hi AllyBee,

I'd like to get this thread back on track a little, and just share some basics. Sometimes experts forget that new people don't know the basics.

For all those experts out there, I'm just sharing general and typical info. I know there are lots of technicalities and details that you'll want to share, but Ally needs a basic overview first. If I make any blatant errors, please forgive and correct me.

USUALLY, this is how it works:

1. Classroom or online learning - ending with a test or series of tests.

2. Confined Water classes - sometimes done in parallel with the classroom/online, but not always. Confined water is a pool, or a pool-like environment. Typically, there would be several sessions, where you would setup your gear, learn and then practice skills. Included, but not limited to mask clearing, weight, buoyancy, regulator recovery, out-of-air emergency, and other things. At the end of these classes, you should feel comfortable with all the skills.

3. Open water skills - Go in the real ocean, lake, or river with an instructor. Demonstrate the skills that you've already learned and practiced in the Confined Water portion. Then just get comfortable and explore a little.

A 'referral' is where you do #1 and #2 with one dive shop (usually local to your home), and then do #3 with another dive shop (usually somewhere on vacation). If both dive shops use the same organization (PADI, SSI, NAUI, etc) the paperwork is easiest.

Note that if you did #1 as an online class, you can use your passing results anywhere within the same organization (for #2 and #3). You passed, and the dive shop does not 'own' that. If you did #1 in a classroom, you might still be entitled to a 'certificate' good anywhere.

My advice:

1. If you took the online course, you should have a certificate. If not, login and try to print one. If you have to, call the organization (PADI, SSI, NAUI, etc) and ask for a copy. You passed the test, so you get the proof. They do expire, but not for a year-ish or so.

2. Find a local dive shop where you live, make sure they use the same organization. Tell them you want to take the confined water classes (in a pool), you will want a referral when complete, and you have proof you already passed the online class. The prices will be LESS than a whole package.

3. After you complete the pool classes, find a nice destination for a short vacation, somewhere warm. Contact a local shop (of the same organization) in advance. Compete your open water dives. Plan for an extra day or two, in case there are weather problems, or you need some extra time to demonstrate the skills.

Try to get a refund from the UK shop. You probably won't get 100%. Your tuition might have included the online course, and you did pass that, so you should pay for it. Use whatever advice and strategies others have given to bolster your argument.

My personal opinion is that a drysuit is an excessive burden on a new student. Many can handle it. Many will have no choice, due to geography. But avoid it if you can. Did you use the autobahn while learning to drive? Probably not at first, if at all.

If you plan to dive colder water on a regular basis, AFTER you get your certification, visit a local dive shop and get some additional training in a drysuit.

Best of luck and keep us informed on your progress!

OK experts, fire away, but please let's keep this focused on Ally's issue, rather than debate some fine print in some standards book.

 

[gr8jab]

OMG, this thread is a couple of months old... AllyBee! What's happening?

 

[AllyBee]

Ok, everyone the situation has an update finally. I've been really busy, but read your responses with interest and want to thank you all!

I eventually sent a long email detailing what happened to the boss who wasn't present. As expected, she basically deflected all blame, politely, in great detail. She also defended doing the dives in the sea from the beginning, insisting many people that do so are better divers in the long run. I don't agree with this, because the vis wasn't great either following the stormy weather.

She also said they hadn't received other negative reviews that season in relation to the instructor who I had issues with (as if that made my own complaint invalid). So they didn't take any responsibility but they did offer to refund half the money. She said she was doing this because she wanted me to realise my diving dream. So, hopefully I can do the course elsewhere now.

I guess next I'll be looking for recommendations for the best places to do this I'm going back to Spain v soon but could travel a little if necessary.

 

[gr8jab]

Hi AllyBee

Glad you got a partial refund. It's pretty common to deflect blame, and was the predictable response. We all do it at some level.

I really hope you find a good instructor. There are several regional European sub-groups here on scubaboard. Asking for recommendations might uncover a good shop/instructor in your area.

 

[EireDiver606]

Hi @AllyBee its seems you received poor quality instruction and were “told” what to do but didn’t understand because it was not shown fully. That is normal for dive shops trying to rush students in and out to churn more profit. The first course a diver does is meant to be slow, explanatory but demanding at the same time.

Where are you based in the UK? I would suggest asking for half of your money back seen as you felt it was not your fault.

I would also highly suggest doing this course Recreational Diver Level 1 - Nitrox diver | Global Underwater Explorers . It will teach you properly from day 1 minute 1 in the water how to be neutrally buoyant and how to dive the safest way possible. It is more expensive but it is what you pay for. Actually it is cheaper for the amount of instruction than other courses as they are normally *at least* 8 hours a day long of pure instruction. These instructors really know what they’re doing and have to re evaluate every few years. @johnkendall can tell you more.

I would highly recommend it. I wish I did this GUE course instead of starting with PADI in my opinion. I have not read the whole thread so hopefully I’m not repeating anything.

 

[johnkendall]

Hi @AllyBee

I am very sorry to hear of your disastrous introduction to scuba diving. Unfortunately you have fallen foul of something that is a little prevalent in the diving industry, which is that a lot of dive shops will be running their classes in such a way as to absolutely minimise their costs. While it's fairly normal for people to learn to dive in the Uk in a drysuit, for the shop to not do any pool sessions is in my opinion not only a dis-service to you, but downright dangerous.

Having buoyancy issues on early dives is not unusual. You are likely to have been subconciously holding your breath, or at least not fully emptying your lungs. However to then turn around and tell you that it's your fault is unforgivable.

My advice would be to take whatever you can from them in terms of refund, and then do some research into the best place to take further training. Since you live in spain, I wouldn't come back to the UK for initial training. While there is some incredible diving in the UK, it's not a particularly great place to learn initial scuba diving outside of a couple of months in the summer, due to weather and temperature. If you want to learn in english, then I can recommend travelling to Malta for training.
And if you were interested in GUE's initial dive training, then I am happy to chat.

Thanks
John

I'd been looking forward to doing the OW course for ages. Having snorkelled a lot in the past and as I love swimming/am a fairly decent swimmer, its something I've wanted to delve into for a long time. I'm a woman in mid-20s also and I think this is relevant to the overall story.

So I completed all the online certification and passed the 200m length/treading water no problem. I decided to do the course in cold water in the UK. This is what happened:-

- Myself and my 'buddy' had to set up the cylinder and BCD in front of the instructor 5 times in quick succession. During the 4th set up I felt a small amount of pain in my lower back which seemed to go away.
- Putting on the drysuit was difficult, it didn't fit properly but the instructor eventually said 'it'll do' and it took 2 people to literally lift me up and wriggle me in to it!
- We carried our stuff down to the shore and put on gloves, mask and hood. The dive master added 2 extra weights each side of my hips and this is when things started to go wrong. While the dive master was adding these weights/still getting me set up, the instructor was giving out important info which she then quizzed on me - I hadn't heard most of it as I was occupied with getting set up.
- She told us to kneel on the floor once in the water and that she would carry out a series of tests following this. Once in there, though, I couldn't kneel on the floor and vis was bad. I just kept floating to the top and I was all over the place. She said 'Use your leg muscles, show that cylinder whose boss' but honestly I wasn't 100% sure what I was meant to be doing.
- Eventually I seemed to have things under control, signalling ok a few times so the instructor took us out deeper. Out of nowhere I struggled with balance again, ripped off the mask and shooted to the surface. Game over, the divemaster took me in and called the dive.

Afterwards there was a 'meeting' with myself and my buddy. The company told me as we were now behind (ie. I had failed to complete the days tests) I would have to step it up tomorrow as it was important that myself and my buddy were at the same level. Initially I wanted to do this but ultimately it felt like too much pressure and I decided to shelve it this time.

Later that evening, I started my period which I think may explain the pain on my hips with the weights. I'm an average weight if it matters and they were digging in to the bones. Are there any alternatives to this?

FYI I live in Spain the rest of the year so won't ave a chance to reschedule in the UK til next year now. Just looking for suggestions on what I can do to be better equipped next time and get past this. Thanks.