Medical Approval Issues

[TSandM]

You know, it might well be that, armed with your pulmonary function test results, your PCP could simply do a phone consultation with the dive doc and get enough reassurance to feel good about signing the forms. This will depend on your relationship with your PCP, and how cooperative the consultant wants to be. But I would at least ask if this could be done, because it would save you a good deal of money and trouble.

Otherwise, I do not blame the PCP for sending you in for spirometry. We had a student a while back who told me his asthma was well-controlled and he was never symptomatic, but we insisted he get medical clearance and he didn't pass the spirometry tests.

 

[RJP]

Door #3. Take personal responsibility for your actions

What about respect for those that will take on the LIABILITY for teaching you after you've falsified material information on the form?

In a sport where we rely upon others - and they rely upon us - there really is no such thing as "taking personal responsibility" when it come to lying on your medical form.

 

[redacted]

What about respect for those that will take on the LIABILITY for teaching you after you've falsified material information on the form?

In a sport where we rely upon others - and they rely upon us - there really is no such thing as "taking personal responsibility" when it come to lying on your medical form.

What liability? The only liability the instructor is likely to incur is if he does not have the completed medical form. That completed piece of paper protects the instructor, the LDS, and the agency.

It is not like the doctors are telling the op he should not dive due to his asthma. They would appear to be telling him he is fine and does not currently have an asthma problem.

 

[JohnN]

What about respect for those that will take on the LIABILITY for teaching you after you've falsified material information on the form?

In a sport where we rely upon others - and they rely upon us - there really is no such thing as "taking personal responsibility" when it come to lying on your medical form.

The only "benefit" of having a Dr. sign a medical form is to place him/her in the litigation stream should poo hit the fan.

If you falsify a medical form, then the responsibility is yours and yours alone.

 

[panzerbjorne]

The only "benefit" of having a Dr. sign a medical form is to place him/her in the litigation stream should poo hit the fan.If you falsify a medical form, then the responsibility is yours and yours alone.

Exactly, and that's one of my biggest concerns - even if the dive doc generally thinks I'd be okay for diving, they may not be willing to get involved in the legal process. It would be safer for them to just say "no" to prevent any possible future headache for themselves and keep their malpractice insurance rate low.

I think I'm going to give the dive doc a visit and just see how that goes - if he's reluctant to get involved then I guess there is an option that squarely gives me ultimate personal responsibility. Frankly I'm amazed that lying on forms is even an option - you'd think the diving cert agencies would have figured out that if you absolutely require physician approval you could establish a pretty sweet kickback system with dive docs around the world. But I suppose that would inconvenience all the leisure divers out on vacation who make a snap decision to dive in some exotic location (where I've noticed many dive accidents occur).

 

[Charles2]

I lean toward option #3 myself; but since I turned 50, I have been reviewing my sporting activities with each of my doctors anytime I visit and ask for their advice. I think that you are on the right track in that you should discuss any medical condition that concerns you and may be contraindicative to diving with your choice of physicians. I don't believe that discussion is any of the dive agency's business; therefore, the comment about option #3. Press on with your current course of action.

By the way: Most agencies have a procedure whereby you can 'replace a lost c-card'. Even if you can't remember who certified you, it seems that you could try all the usual agencies and see if your name and certification shows up. It normally only takes a few seconds to fill in your name and date of birth on the agency's form. -- I was first certified in 1966 by NAUI. I was able to get a replacement for my original paper card in 2001. This one was actually plastic and I still use it to this day because of the 1966 date.

Cheers
Charles

 

[redacted]

I do not see option 3 as lying as much as interpreting the question and giving them the most accurate answer they really need. In my case, it is just silly to ask the question in the form of "have you ever had ... hearing loss....". I'm pushing 70 and have had hearing loss since I went into the Army almost 50 years ago. I have been dealing with profound hearing loss for 40 years. I have spoken to my Dr about it many times and we fully understand the cause and know that scuba diving will not effect my condition. Do I really need to get a current note from my Dr every year because a dive agency wants me to? Well, I made that decision (with the input from my DR) a long time ago so I just write NO.

It is not like a flight physical where it is a legally established requirement because there is a recognized threat not just to yourself but others around you. If scuba agencies feel their medical release request should be on the same level as FAA required flight physicals, I'm sure they could successfully lobby the government to institute such a requirement.

The key is to get your Dr's input on how your conditions effect your scuba diving and act accordingly. No sense in putting yourself or your dive buddy in danger. And you can still give the "scuba professionals" their liability security blanket without wasting additional time and money on unnecessary Dr visits.

 

[Hawkwood]

Alert Diver | Medical Questionnaire / Statement

 

[uncfnp]

Part of the problem with the questionnaire is that the questions are too broad and almost force the diver to make a judgement call or "lie". How many divers have ever had a backache? Allergies? Wheezed with bronchitis? Over 45 and under medical care...I sure hope you have a PCP and get regular check ups. Ever had a vasovagal reaction (simple faint). How about prescription medications? Frequent colds? Hope none of you have ever had a severe case of seasickness. IVF for dehydration with diarrhea? And as awap pointed out, age related hearing loss.

The form doesn't differentiate minor issues from major ones. My guess is that the vast majority of divers "lie" to varying degrees.

 

[Iralub]

What liability? The only liability the instructor is likely to incur is if he does not have the completed medical form. That completed piece of paper protects the instructor, the LDS, and the agency.

It is not like the doctors are telling the op he should not dive due to his asthma. They would appear to be telling him he is fine and does not currently have an asthma problem.

I suspect RJP was talking about "liability" in a sense of risk to people who might need to rescue a diver in trouble, rather than legal liability.

But that's where the medical form is just too broad to distinguish between conditions that may create risk and those that don't.

For example Q: do you suffer from back pains? Well, yes, I do, they come from sitting at the computer too much at work with poor posture. I don't have them while diving and they are completely irrelevant to that activity. There is no downside to ticking "no" on the form, save for avoiding the cost and hassle of doing a medical.

Example 2 Q: "do you take prescription medication"? Yes, I take a medication and have done for 20 years, for a condition that is irrelevant to diving safety. I have researched whether the medication can compromise diving safety and there aren't any specific studies, but there are no known issues and many thousands diving while on that medication without a problem. My doctor gave me a note that she could see no problems with me diving.
If I tick yes on the form and produce the dr note, my dr could be liable if something were to go wrong, against all odds. If I tick "no", she's not going to be a liability target. Guess which one I'd rather do.